lau03143 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 20 hours ago, HTG said: I get all of that but there appears to be no legal route to independence other than via approval from Westminster. It's clear to me that irrespective of the views of the Scottish electorate, that approval will never be given again. The views of the Scottish electorate was to remain part of the United Kingdom. The SNP support is going to collapse at the next election, and since 2014, the SNP have shat it at pushing for another referendum, so why would any PM grant another referendum anytime soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lau03143 Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, TheScarf said: Imagine wanting to be governed by and being an afterthought of England. I've always wondered why more Unionists don't move down to England, given they appear to love their right-wing policies. Are you 12 years old? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, Stellaboz said: Scots who hate the thought of self rule are the weirdest people on the planet. Q.E.D 9 minutes ago, lau03143 said: The views of the Scottish electorate was to remain part of the United Kingdom. The SNP support is going to collapse at the next election, and since 2014, the SNP have shat it at pushing for another referendum, so why would any PM grant another referendum anytime soon. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Jaffo Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, Stellaboz said: Scots who hate the thought of self rule are the weirdest people on the planet. Bootlickers, the lot of them. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 26 minutes ago, lau03143 said: Are you 12 years old? What a bizarre thing to ask someone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, lau03143 said: The views of the Scottish electorate was to remain part of the United Kingdom. The SNP support is going to collapse at the next election, and since 2014, the SNP have shat it at pushing for another referendum, so why would any PM grant another referendum anytime soon. The view of the Scottish electorate has continued to be to return a govt in favour of independence. Your conjecture about the next election carries absolutely zero substance - unlike the elections of 2015, 2017 and 2019 plus the elections to the Scottish parliament in the same period. You maybe missed the SNP taking the matter of pushing for another referendum to the Supreme Court - not sure how that aligns to "shat it". Northern Ireland - a much more contentious landscape - has the term generation defined in the GFA. We're already well past that definition in Scotland so your inference that the people of Scotland should get back in their box is laughable - except in a country where there is no legal means of delivering on a mandate repeatedly given by the people of that country. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, lau03143 said: The views of the Scottish electorate was to remain part of the United Kingdom. The SNP support is going to collapse at the next election, and since 2014, the SNP have shat it at pushing for another referendum, so why would any PM grant another referendum anytime soon. I don't think there have been any Scottish polls suggesting an SNP collapse. Seems to be lots of UK wide ones where Labour popularity in England is granted to elsewhere which isn't how reality works. I think the SNP will likely lose some seats as I don't think they are as popular as they were but I also don't think they are unpopular enough to have a "collapse". Labour are definitely nowhere near as popular up here as England so I can't see them making huge strides. Personally won't be voting for either Edited April 5 by itzdrk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirez Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 At least Northern Irish unionists can put the squeeze on Westminster Governments given half the chance to get something. Scottish unionists are just cringing cap-doffing weirdos that will happily do as they are told. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 hours ago, wirez said: The SNP / Independence movement after the Salmond years has been a joke. Lots of happy clappers sipping the kool-aid of mammy Sturgeon, believing she had a secret master plan that would outfox those dastardly Westminster Tories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 There seems to be very little in the way of a plan atm beyond asking Westminster nicely if they'll let us have one and little in the way of a vision of what an iScotland will look like beyond being 'tory free' and changing UJ's to Saltires. Momentum has stalled and opportunities squandered. It's back to being a mid-long term goal now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 hours ago, wirez said: The SNP / Independence movement after the Salmond years has been a joke. Lots of happy clappers sipping the kool-aid of mammy Sturgeon, believing she had a secret master plan that would outfox those dastardly Westminster Tories. There will still be more SNP MPs after the next general election under Humza Yousaf than there ever were under cuddles Salmond. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirez Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 5 minutes ago, welshbairn said: There will still be more SNP MPs after the next general election under Humza Yousaf than there ever were under cuddles Salmond. No doubt. Coming up for 10 years since the referendum, and they will still be sitting their arses on those green benches doing bugger all to advance independence. Useless. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 14 minutes ago, welshbairn said: There will still be more SNP MPs after the next general election under Humza Yousaf than there ever were under cuddles Salmond. Insert Alan Partridge GIF here. We had 50 odd MPs under Sturgeon and it achieved nothing. If Salmond hung around he’d probably have enjoyed similar success on the back of the last Indy ref. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 The SNP can't achieve anything as the Union has been proven in court to not be voluntary. What can they do when Labour and The Tories won't grant another one, regardless of Indy polling figures in Scotland? It could be 75-25 in favour of Yes and whatever Right Wing, Thatcherite party currently governing would still tell the SNP to fuck off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirso Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 3 minutes ago, TheScarf said: The SNP can't achieve anything as the Union has been proven in court to not be voluntary. What can they do when Labour and The Tories won't grant another one, regardless of Indy polling figures in Scotland? It could be 75-25 in favour of Yes and whatever Right Wing, Thatcherite party currently governing would still tell the SNP to f**k off. You could be right there but I reckon if the SNP or any Scottish independence movement went into an election and got 75% Yes, something would have to give. Even the English recognise Scotland is a country, would be a tough sell to deny independence in that situation. Especially given precedent of a referendum having taken place already. Ultimately I do think it's upto the Scottish people whether we're independent, regardless of legalities. Democracy and public pressure supersedes law if the will is there. Fact is neither the Union or Independence are heavily favoured. We live in a divided nation and the SNP/Indpendence movement can't wish that away. If it was 75/25 in Yes's favour, we'd be in a very different ball game. Yousaf would call a vote tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 7 hours ago, TheScarf said: Imagine wanting to be governed by and being an afterthought of England. I've always wondered why more Unionists don't move down to England, given they appear to love their right-wing policies. No need. Since Brexit we've basically become a theme-park for wealthy Home Counties individuals, so certain parts of Scotland are rapidly becoming indistinguishable from leafy pro-Union Southeast England in any case. It'll be a while before major cities will be fully assimilated (parts of Edinburgh excepted), but go to North Berwick and wander around for half an hour and you'd be convinced you were in Kent or Surrey. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Don Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 I think the best chance of Scottish independence at the moment is if England decided it wanted its independence. Unfortunately that ship has already sailed with Brexit as many south of the border see no absolutely difference between England and Britain (see the current Tory image showing what is great about Britain and the football team that is in it!) However No sensible politician in England would want to lose the resources that we posses in Scotland despite all that nonsense about us being a drain on the UK some right wing media outlets spout. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: No need. Since Brexit we've basically become a theme-park for wealthy Home Counties individuals, so certain parts of Scotland are rapidly becoming indistinguishable from leafy pro-Union Southeast England in any case. It'll be a while before major cities will be fully assimilated (parts of Edinburgh excepted), but go to North Berwick and wander around for half an hour and you'd be convinced you were in Kent or Surrey. tbf North Berwick has always been like that - back in the day it was (and remains) the retirement home for many an auld ex finance / law / doctor person who wanted to move out of town and be closer to the gazzilion golf clubs. There are certainly little pockets in Edinburgh (Grange / Morningside) where theres many English settlers.............but I'm not sure its such a big influx as you might think. See also G12 along the M8, my son lives around it and i've heard a few English accents. Edited April 5 by Leith Green 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Leith Green said: tbf North Berwick has always been like that - back in the day it was (and remains) the retirement home for many an auld ex finance / law / doctor person who wanted to move out of town and be closer to the gazzilion gold clubs. There are certainly little pockets in Edinburgh (Grange / Morningside) where theres many English settlers.............but I'm not sure its such a big influx as you might think. See also G12 along the M8, my son lives around it and i've heard a few English accents. Yip, NB probably not a great example. Just picked it because the last time I was down there the harbourfront was heaving with folk, obviously residents not tourists, and every single one of them had a Home Counties accent. The issue that has plagued the Islands is encroaching into mainland Scotland now though, and it has accelerated since Brexit. Fewer people are able to uproot to France or Spain in search of lower house prices and a lesser population density, but they've twigged that Scotland offers the same. The issue is, they bring their hyper-inflationary housing market with them, and folk who have been born and brought up in these areas can no longer afford to compete for places to live. Then you have the preponderance of second homes, and absentee landlordism in places like Edinburgh, where a significant number of AirBnb and so on are bought by English property developers using the profits they've made in the ridiculous English housing market. In theory, an influx of wealthy people into any economy should always be welcome, but it isn't as simple as that in reality, because they are often the sorts of families where they are wealthy enough that one is economically inactive and the breadwinner still commutes south of the border (or increasingly now WFH, but not "employed" in Scotland), or they only reside here for part of the year, or are simply here to gather passive income on housing investments while simultaneously destroying the market for locals. Edited April 5 by Boo Khaki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: where a significant number of AirBnb and so on are bought by English property developers using the profits they've made in the ridiculous English housing market. I have a small maintenance business and work with letting agents - this is bang on. Some of the cash raked in by these landlords is incredible. I cant go into exact details, but one tourist place (multlple flats one stair) up near the castle brings in almost £400k per annum......... Long term lets isnt much better - I was working in a 1 bed flat just off Leith Walk yesterday, got chatting with the guy and he pays £850 pm before any bills, and hes expecting a £60/£90 rise. TBF its a great location with great pubs and transport links, but £850 for one bed??? It used to be better/cheaper in Glasgow (where my son is) but anywhere near the Universities is awful for long term lets now. Someone is making a fortune (and its no me, by the way, my hourly rate is fine !!) out of our young people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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