When will indyref2 happen?

[Colkitto]

Just now, Isthatyou said:

Saying one thing, thinking another, how sure are you that, Davidson, Dugdale or Rennie would not mind #indyref2, sooner than later, everybody knows that, Sturgeon will blink first, although, the correct thing to do would be to wait, but she won't, if you lose again, it really is over

If they would not mind one they would campaign for one .Doesn't get much simpler than that!

 

If we lose again then same conditions apply. Next parly if majority want indyref3 we will have one. We don't play by Unionist rules anymore I'm afraid 

[Isthatyou]

8 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

If they would not mind one they would campaign for one .Doesn't get much simpler than that!

 

If we lose again then same conditions apply. Next parly if majority want indyref3 we will have one. We don't play by Unionist rules anymore I'm afraid 

they don't have to campaign, you lot are doing enough campaigning for everyone and with no real improvement in your chances, but hey please carry on the good work

[hehawhehaw]

24 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

If they would not mind one they would campaign for one .Doesn't get much simpler than that!

 

If we lose again then same conditions apply. Next parly if majority want indyref3 we will have one. We don't play by Unionist rules anymore I'm afraid 

Meanwhile back at the ranch... everything deteriorates, but that's OK as wee seaweed is still prancing around shit-stirring. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You have no idea what "most people" knew or didn't know when casting their vote for the UK's separation.

He does have a point regards the White Paper - it was wish list politics of the worst kind.

[AyrExile]

2 hours ago, Colkitto said:

If they would not mind one they would campaign for one .Doesn't get much simpler than that!

 

If we lose again then same conditions apply. Next parly if majority want indyref3 we will have one. We don't play by Unionist rules anymore I'm afraid 

Unfortunately there aren't enough sheeple  in Scotland to push this over the line and you will need to appeal to a broad spectrum of voters. Having a 3rd one in as many years would totally alienate the masses. Maybe Salmond fancies another crack as he seems to be pushing hard on getting the second one going at the moment. 

[Colkitto]

Indyref2 will be down to the people as it's them that voted for the parties in favour of holding one and it's ultimately the people who will decide whether we remain in the UK or become an independent State in our own right.

It's Unionists that seem to have a problem with that thing called democracy and letting the people decide.  

[Alan Stubbs]

Selfishly, I'm not sure I like the sound of this Catalan UDI. It will be reported on here with an eye to Scottish Indy. If the referendum fails, we'll get a million 'careful now, down with this kind of thing' editorials about how Independence is now a bad idea.

If they do declare a UDI, it'll probably be a total shitfest, the details of which will be used to frighten gullible shitebags who don't understand the difference between a UDI and a consented referendum. 

Would be nice if the Catalans could lead the way and hold our wee frail hands into statehood. The Spanish Gov being arseholes about it will make that a tricky proposition unfortunately.

[AyrExile]

24 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

Indyref2 will be down to the people as it's them that voted for the parties in favour of holding one and it's ultimately the people who will decide whether we remain in the UK or become an independent State in our own right.

It's Unionists that seem to have a problem with that thing called democracy and letting the people decide.  

The people decided in 2014. In fact only a third of the Scottish population were motivated enough to deliver their yes vote. Do the other parts of democracy not count like respecting the outcome of a vote and waiting a generation? As the brexit possibility was known about in 2014 and Scotlands trade with eu is far less than RUk it looks like it's any old excuse rather than the right reasons for holding indyref 2. 

[Peppino Impastato]

I don't remember seeing the phrase a generation on my ballot paper.   I also remember an election recently where the snp ran on a manifesto of holding a referendum if brexit.   Ad they won.  That's democracy chump,  you don't like it then win an election. 

[Antlion]

17 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

The people decided in 2014. In fact only a third of the Scottish population were motivated enough to deliver their yes vote. Do the other parts of democracy not count like respecting the outcome of a vote and waiting a generation? As the brexit possibility was known about in 2014 and Scotlands trade with eu is far less than RUk it looks like it's any old excuse rather than the right reasons for holding indyref 2. 

You had a chance to fill Holyrood with "Never Again, Scotland the Wee Region Forever" types. You failed. Get over it.

[Colkitto]

12 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

The people decided in 2014. In fact only a third of the Scottish population were motivated enough to deliver their yes vote. Do the other parts of democracy not count like respecting the outcome of a vote and waiting a generation? As the brexit possibility was known about in 2014 and Scotlands trade with eu is far less than RUk it looks like it's any old excuse rather than the right reasons for holding indyref 2. 

The people did decide in 2014. Then things changed from then and the things we were told turned out to be lies.

The people then voted for the SNP and they won the Westminster and Holyrood elections. They became the biggest party in Holyrood with a manifesto of holding indyref2.

That's democracy in action. And one day very soon the SNP government will ask the people of Scotland again with indyref2

[AyrExile]

57 minutes ago, Antlion said:

You had a chance to fill Holyrood with "Never Again, Scotland the Wee Region Forever" types. You failed. Get over it.

Very happy for the question to be asked again and a generation would seem a fair amount of time. Last time should have been an open goal for a yes vote so remember to put some proper arguments together next time. 

[Peppino Impastato]

A generation won't be on the ballot this time either champ,  it's undemocratic. 

[renton]

1 hour ago, AyrExile said:

The people decided in 2014. In fact only a third of the Scottish population were motivated enough to deliver their yes vote. Do the other parts of democracy not count like respecting the outcome of a vote and waiting a generation? As the brexit possibility was known about in 2014 and Scotlands trade with eu is far less than RUk it looks like it's any old excuse rather than the right reasons for holding indyref 2. 

Oh Christ, not this again. Democracy is ultimately decided by who turns up, by your argument less than half of Scotland's electorate were motivated to vote No. I'm also interested in exactly what part of democracy involves waiting 'a generation' - thanks to our unwritten constitution there isn't actually a time limitation on how often we can re-run the whole show, comments from Sturgeon and Salmond on the issue in '14 not actually being of relevance now as, Super Mac once said, "Events, dear boy, events". As for respecting the outcome of the vote, we did - last time I checked Scotland had not unilaterally seceded. Hence, the outcome of the vote was respected.

In terms of the Brexit possibility, No, it wasn't considered - indeed a major plank of the No campaign was championing the idea that a No vote was the only way to protect Scotland's EU status. No one in Better Together stopped to say, well actually the Tories might win a majority, might be wreckless enough to hold a referendum on the EU and might be stupid enough to lose it. Indeed, dear old Internationalist Labour tried to paint the SNP as parochial isolationists over the issue, before printing mugs about immigration controls a year later, and then pondering whether they should be a bit more xenophobic a year after that.

The market thing is an interesting one. Most Scottish exports go down south, but it's by no means the end point for our exports. It matters in terms of trade tariffs and duties, but given protestations from Westminster about no return to a hard border between Ireland, then in the short term I think there is a way around that, in the long term - build a couple of bloody great big deep water container ports and ship straight to the continent.

[AUFC90]

Just now, AyrExile said:

Very happy for the question to be asked again and a generation would seem a fair amount of time. Last time should have been an open goal for a yes vote so remember to put some proper arguments together next time. 

The yes sides arguments lead to them gaining support. Remind me how much support better together lost with their brilliant arguments ? There will be a referendum whenever the scottish parliament decides, regardless of how many times it happens and there only needs to be one yes vote. Thems the facts 

[AyrExile]

9 minutes ago, renton said:

Oh Christ, not this again. Democracy is ultimately decided by who turns up, by your argument less than half of Scotland's electorate were motivated to vote No. I'm also interested in exactly what part of democracy involves waiting 'a generation' - thanks to our unwritten constitution there isn't actually a time limitation on how often we can re-run the whole show, comments from Sturgeon and Salmond on the issue in '14 not actually being of relevance now as, Super Mac once said, "Events, dear boy, events". As for respecting the outcome of the vote, we did - last time I checked Scotland had not unilaterally seceded. Hence, the outcome of the vote was respected.

In terms of the Brexit possibility, No, it wasn't considered - indeed a major plank of the No campaign was championing the idea that a No vote was the only way to protect Scotland's EU status. No one in Better Together stopped to say, well actually the Tories might win a majority, might be wreckless enough to hold a referendum on the EU and might be stupid enough to lose it. Indeed, dear old Internationalist Labour tried to paint the SNP as parochial isolationists over the issue, before printing mugs about immigration controls a year later, and then pondering whether they should be a bit more xenophobic a year after that.

The market thing is an interesting one. Most Scottish exports go down south, but it's by no means the end point for our exports. It matters in terms of trade tariffs and duties, but given protestations from Westminster about no return to a hard border between Ireland, then in the short term I think there is a way around that, in the long term - build a couple of bloody great big deep water container ports and ship straight to the continent.

Voting no or not turning up effectively meant carry on as normal so a little bit different from yes side. This was their big moment and despite all the free buses laid on only 30% odd percent were keen enough. Yeah let's just disregard Sturgeons and Salmonds comments when appropriate. The generation thing was used as a scare tactic by the yes side to get people voting for them as it might be their only chance in a long while. 

[Peppino Impastato]

What comments?   Post what they said,  and show me where the phrase appeared in the Edinburgh agreement

[AUFC90]

5 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

Voting no or not turning up effectively meant carry on as normal so a little bit different from yes side. This was their big moment and despite all the free buses laid on only 30% odd percent were keen enough. Yeah let's just disregard Sturgeons and Salmonds comments when appropriate. The generation thing was used as a scare tactic by the yes side to get people voting for them as it might be their only chance in a long while. 

Pish, it was only ever mentioned as a figure of speech, i.e it's a once in a lifetime oppurtunity, i.e it's a brilliant opportunity. A scare tactic 

[Antlion]

5 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

Pish, it was only ever mentioned as a figure of speech, i.e it's a once in a lifetime oppurtunity, i.e it's a brilliant opportunity. A scare tactic 

Just to be clear - the regionalists want the White Paper to be disregarded nonsense, but any comments about "once in a generation opportunities" made by the people behind it to be written in stone.

[renton]

10 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

Voting no or not turning up effectively meant carry on as normal so a little bit different from yes side. This was their big moment and despite all the free buses laid on only 30% odd percent were keen enough. Yeah let's just disregard Sturgeons and Salmonds comments when appropriate. The generation thing was used as a scare tactic by the yes side to get people voting for them as it might be their only chance in a long while. 

No it doesn't it really doesn't. Not turning up means I can't be arsed to record my preference so I place my trust in my contemporaries to make the call on my behalf. It doesn't actually apportion a given position to those people after the fact.

I disregard their statements firstly because 1. They weren't speaking for me 2. "A generation" is a pointless measure of time that could be twisted to mean anything and 3. The world went and changed since then. The UK of 2014 no longer exists.