Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Gallus Numpty]

2 hours ago, Dosser1886 said:

 

2 hours ago, Jonnylosqualo said:

Looked up some of the players from the 85/86 squad. Andy Harrow's Wikipedia is interesting.

 

"It's WITH WHOM I LIVE, not WHO I LIVE WITH!"

#hedgehogsandwich

[Archie McSquackle]

I remember Andy Harrow scoring a great lob against Hibs. Other than that, he was pretty average like most of our squad in those in those days. 

[18May1991]

I can just about remember Graeme Forbes getting sent off for a great save on the goal line. No idea when or against which team. 

[capt_oats]

7 hours ago, Swello said:

My first season watching us - Boyd and Gahagan aside,  I barely (or actually don't) remember a lot of these players on the stickers. The fact I've only seen us in the top league is pathetically important to me because my time lines up exactly with the current stint...

Aye, I don't quite synch up exactly as my first game was the 86/87 season (a 2-1 loss to St Mirren at Fir Park 27th December 1986) and it wasn't really until 87/88 that my Dad started taking me along more regularly.

It may be because I'm also of the cohort who have seen us win something and have only seen us in the top league but I'm the same...only having seen us in the top flight is also pathetically important to me.

Edited May 5 by capt_oats

[Vietnam91]

4 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

The nature of the game in Scotland these days is you often have a huge rebuild over summer, so it's not much of an excuse for managers. On the other hand, it's clear that for various reasons, our build up was hardly ideal last time.

I'm not convinced SK is going to be a great manager for us next season but I am convinced he's earned his chance to succeed or fail based off a 'normal' build up.

We've basically been safe since the win at Ibrox, so there has been a long run in period to prepare. I don't think anyone in the squad by August won't have been signed or re-signed by him (assuming Tierney doesn't return)... judgement by autumn, if only on our direction rather than final product, will be pretty fair and without caveats or excuses.

I always like the anticipation of a new season but this one more than most. I expected this year to be a struggle but, as I've said before, I think we can be cautiously optimistic we've bottomed out and are due an upturn again.

We always go into any season with a few players that seem to be just not good enough or hold us back. Based on recent performances Halliday seems he's going to take up that mantle with aplomb, so ponderous on the ball, so many things he tried just didn't come off.

If so many of the long serving/high earners are out of contract its encouraging that Kettlewell at least has a bit in the war chest he didn't have last summer to go to the market with (if he doesn't resign many of them).

Blaney looked pretty assured yesterday and was very composed in his passing, not that Livi posed much of a threat beyond their VAR offside goal, ironically holding a run by 0.5 seconds would have resulted in yet another 6 yard unchallenged header. The second half reeked of a pre season friendly.

Casey would run through a brick wall for the team but he's a central figure in this awful defence. A strong calming influence beside him (you know like Butcher before all footballing ability left him) would be key. I really don't know where to start with this defence, I'd keep them all but also none, its weird.

Considering we started this season with Wilkinson as our KVV replacement and Obika as his partner/ball winner its interesting how it all panned out.

This season we managed to replace KVV's contribution through Spittal and Theo, next season it seems like we're going to have to replace their contribution with two new faces. Let's face it, without their 25 goals and with our current defensive frailties we'd be in a bad place right now.

[Eliphas Pettigrew]

6 hours ago, Wellin said:

There was a guy removed by stewards at half time yesterday for abusing Spittal just as he was about to take a corner and then wanting to fight fans who challenged him. 

Hearing this sort of shit but not knowing the full facts - if that can somehow excuse that behaviour - it does make me wonder if people's priorities have somehow got skewed

Edited May 5 by Eliphas Pettigrew

[Handsome_Devil]

4 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

Blaney looked pretty assured yesterday and was very composed in his passing, not that Livi posed much of a threat beyond their VAR offside goal, ironically holding a run by 0.5 seconds would have resulted in yet another 6 yard unchallenged header. The second half reeked of a pre season friendly.

Casey would run through a brick wall for the team but he's a central figure in this awful defence. A strong calming influence beside him (you know like Butcher before all footballing ability left him) would be key. I really don't know where to start with this defence, I'd keep them all but also none, its weird.

...

This season we managed to replace KVV's contribution through Spittal and Theo, next season it seems like we're going to have to replace their contribution with two new faces. Let's face it, without their 25 goals and with our current defensive frailties we'd be in a bad place right now.

Yeah, the defence is fascinating one. We have steadied up a lot but the total allergy to clean sheets remains and unless that's sorted next season we're not getting better. And as much as the defence this season are collectively culpable, they were also (largely) part of the solid group under SK last season. I suspect the total collapse of Butcher has a lot to do with it. So only one main problem to fix but considerably harder than dipping into the never-ending pool of English wing-backs.

As for the goals, that's a problem we deal with frequently and will do so again. Probably!

[capt_oats]

Related to the former players XI thread and @Swello's recent post, I see that's big Cedric won both Players POTY and Fans POTY at West Brom. Quite a redemption arc for him there given he was pretty much bombed out by Bilic not long after signing.

[Vietnam91]

10 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Yeah, the defence is fascinating one.

Individually they all have qualities you'd be happy with, just put them together on a pitch together and they resemble a primary school team.

Hearts (A), St Mirren (H) and Ross County (H) are our three clean sheets. Every other game the opposition have scored at least one against us.

Also, those seat piece conceded and scored stats have really stuck in my head since they were posted on here.

[Wellin]

27 minutes ago, Eliphas Pettigrew said:

Hearing this sort of shit but not knowing the full facts - if that can somehow excuse that behaviour - it does make me wonder if people's priorities have somehow got skewed

I was about three feet away from it. He was screaming at Spittal who was about to take a corner and would have heard it and then when other fans challenged him he wanted to fight them and at that point other fans asked security to intervene which they did. I'm not sure why the guy was angry - I suspect Spittal leaving might have been a factor. Also because I think the fan thought no one would challenge him. 

[capt_oats]

40 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Yeah, the defence is fascinating one. We have steadied up a lot but the total allergy to clean sheets remains and unless that's sorted next season we're not getting better. And as much as the defence this season are collectively culpable, they were also (largely) part of the solid group under SK last season. I suspect the total collapse of Butcher has a lot to do with it. So only one main problem to fix but considerably harder than dipping into the never-ending pool of English wing-backs.

As for the goals, that's a problem we deal with frequently and will do so again. Probably!

The interesting wrinkle with the defence is that broadly speaking we have the same personnel as last season when Kettlewell took over minus Johnston and Furlong. The obvious caveat is the injury to Butcher, Casey spending most of the summer on the lash and the assorted other injuries that meant we've struggled to get any sort of consistency in there. 

Either way in the time between being parachuted in to replace Hammell we had six (6) clean sheets in fourteen (14) games. So double the number we've managed in the entire league season to date this campaign.

It kind of suggests that Kettlewell can set up a defence since in those 14 games we only conceded 13 (including 4 against Rangers).

After the same number of games at this point last season we'd conceded 48 goals currently we're on 53. Admittedly being 5 goals worse off probably isn't as dramatic as some of the handwringing about our defence would make you think, which probably goes back to @crazylegsjoe_mfc's point earlier that it's the type of goals we're shipping that's causing folk to lose the run of themselves.

So it begs the question what the f**k has happened? Is it a coaching thing, a personnel thing?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited May 5 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Can't remember the stats but I'm sure we've got a much better record when Bevis starts than without.

[camer0n_mcd]

Bevis started (and played 90 minutes) in all 3 games that we had clean sheets in

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

13 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Can't remember the stats but I'm sure we've got a much better record when Bevis starts than without.

I think it probably was at one point, but probably him not starting yesterday, or at Dens, have tipped the scales.

W6 D10 L10 - 28 points in 26 games with him starting (1.07 points per game).

W3 D3 L3 - 12 points from 9 games without him starting (1.33 points per game).

 

Edited May 5 by crazylegsjoe_mfc

[rowsdower]

I'm curious about where we will go with the goalie spot. Any current premier league goalies out of contract?

Obileye slapping Halliday in the back of the head a few times was funny, but im not keen on a back 3 of him, Casey, and blaney.

 

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, rowsdower said:

I'm curious about where we will go with the goalie spot. Any current premier league goalies out of contract?

Obileye slapping Halliday in the back of the head a few times was funny, but im not keen on a back 3 of him, Casey, and blaney.

Narey's Toepoker posted this the other day. It's slim pickings tbqh.

Echoing @MurrayWell's post on the last page re: Frail's comments it'll be interesting to see if we start announcing any new contracts now that we're officially safe rather than simply having a high probability chance of avoiding the play-off spot.

Edited May 5 by capt_oats

[Vietnam91]

14 hours ago, capt_oats said:

The interesting wrinkle with the defence is that broadly speaking we have the same personnel as last season when Kettlewell took over minus Johnston and Furlong. The obvious caveat is the injury to Butcher, Casey spending most of the summer on the lash and the assorted other injuries that meant we've struggled to get any sort of consistency in there. 

Either way in the time between being parachuted in to replace Hammell we had six (6) clean sheets in fourteen (14) games. So double the number we've managed in the entire league season to date this campaign.

It kind of suggests that Kettlewell can set up a defence since in those 14 games we only conceded 13 (including 4 against Rangers).

After the same number of games at this point last season we'd conceded 48 goals currently we're on 53. Admittedly being 5 goals worse off probably isn't as dramatic as some of the handwringing about our defence would make you think, which probably goes back to @crazylegsjoe_mfc's point earlier that it's the type of goals we're shipping that's causing folk to lose the run of themselves.

So it begs the question what the f**k has happened? Is it a coaching thing, a personnel thing?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Looking at the stats the main difference between this season and last is who we conceded to. I suppose we're hot wired to assume cricket score losses to the OF and therefore that skews things, that was my initial thoughts after reading your post. Surely among those 48 conceded last season there must have been a few hosings.

Turns out besides one 3-0 and the 4-2 dished out by Sevco that was it, all three Celtic results tight (2-1 losses and a 1-1 draw).
 

We conceded 3 goals in the same amount of games as last season (albeit with 3 to play this term)

Hearts x2, Sevco x2, Hibs and Aberdeen vs Ross County x2, Aberdeen x2, Dundee and Celtic. The major difference is in 2022/23 all those who put 3 by us finished in the top 6 and we only played 3x each. This season we've lost 4 to fellow bottom 6 teams and still have both Ross County and Aberdeen to play for a fourth time.

Edited May 6 by Vietnam91

[Archie McSquackle]

7 hours ago, 18May1991 said:

I can just about remember Graeme Forbes getting sent off for a great save on the goal line. No idea when or against which team. 

It was fairly late on in a game against Accies at the old Douglas Park. As you say, a great save to his top left corner in the home end goal. Not entirely sure of the score but I'm going to suggest it preserved a 1-1 draw around 86-87.

'Psycho' Forces also hit the bar with a header in our Scottish Cup semi against Celtic when we were still in the first division. Drew 1-1 but lost the replay 3-0.

[Handsome_Devil]

8 hours ago, capt_oats said:

So it begs the question what the f**k has happened? Is it a coaching thing, a personnel thing?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A total guess but given the farcical efforts we have at set pieces, I suspect we tried to tweak things, over-complicated it, lost all confidence and tied ourselves in knots. 

I appreciate modern data 'says' you shouldn't just pick up a man each but I do think trying to read it has caused more trouble than it was worth when we lost the path.

[RandomGuy.]

9 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

Also, those seat piece conceded and scored stats have really stuck in my head since they were posted on here.

Since I've got them to hand due to our shite record, here's the current figures.

8 hours ago, rowsdower said:

I'm curious about where we will go with the goalie spot. Any current premier league goalies out of contract?

Mitov is almost 100% leaving us if we get relegated.