The Golden God Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Nobody knew who Ferrari were before 2000 it seems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 15 hours ago, The Golden God said: Nobody knew who Ferrari were before 2000 it seems. Ferrari won the driver's title in 1979 then 2000 (21 years) They wonnthe constructors title in 1983 and 1999 (16 years) Currently 17 and 16 years since they won these titles, but unlike the Schumacher era there is no sign that they are about to become dominant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gianfranco Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 I was still in primary school but if I remember correctly Williams and then McLaren were pretty dominant in the late 90s so not sure Ferrari winning it in 2000 was a saw it coming thing? Could be wrong though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gianfranco said: I was still in primary school but if I remember correctly Williams and then McLaren were pretty dominant in the late 90s so not sure Ferrari winning it in 2000 was a saw it coming thing? Could be wrong though. Williams, Lotus, McLaren dominated the 80's and first half of the 90's, with Ferrari only being briefly relevant for a couple of seasons in the Prost/Mansell & Berger/Alesi era. Never the dominant car though. Ferrari would have walked away with both titles in '99 if Schumi hadn't broken his leg, but that was the culmination of 4 years of battling back to relevance. 2000 was pretty much follow-on from '99, and McLaren probably stayed closer to Ferrari than expected. I think '99 & 00 were really the peak of Mika Hakkinen, because he still had better machinery than Schumi in 98, and probably had slightly the inferior machine in 00 but still kept it close. Prevailing thought was that if Ferrari could go toe to toe with McLaren with Eddie Irvine and Mika Salo, then the gap had been truly closed and with a fit and healthy Schumi they'd have too much for McLaren in 2000. Tyre war was also a significant factor, because for their first few seasons Michelin got the drop on Goodyear in a few areas, but through 98 and 99 GY got their act together to the point whereby they tended to be the far more adaptable tyre, whereas when the Michelin didn't work, it really didn't work. 97 + 98 close championships were really down to Schumi over-performing against better machinery. After 2000 McLaren fell away a good bit, and after BMW were fully bedded-in at Williams they were as much, if not more of a threat to Ferrari. So in my view, '97 and '98 were Schumi overperforming, '99 would have been where the balance tilted but for the accident, then 00 was what '99 should have been only McLaren was probably a bit closer on performance than they were in 99 even though they lost out on both titles. From 2001-04 was a simple case of best driver in best car with best support, hence total dominance, for the most part. The thing about Ferrari is they weren't really viewed as a "sleeping giant", they'd deteriorated to the point that they were pretty much regarded as a tin-pot, incompetent also-ran, along the lines of the other Italian "enthusiastic amateurs". Pit lane screw-ups, cars running out of fuel, engine explosions, everything that could go wrong did go wrong. To go from that to the utter machine they were from 98-06 took some doing, and I think Raikkonen's WDC and Massa's near miss were results of the residual hang-over from that era. Once that went completely what was left gradually became more akin to what they were in the first part of the 90's, and I can't really see that coming back until they once again have a driver and management team with strong enough personalities to overcome all the usual Ferrari-related bollocks. Edited April 9 by Boo Khaki 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 21 hours ago, Boo Khaki said: Williams, Lotus, McLaren dominated the 80's and first half of the 90's, with Ferrari only being briefly relevant for a couple of seasons in the Prost/Mansell & Berger/Alesi era. Never the dominant car though. Ferrari would have walked away with both titles in '99 if Schumi hadn't broken his leg, but that was the culmination of 4 years of battling back to relevance. 2000 was pretty much follow-on from '99, and McLaren probably stayed closer to Ferrari than expected. I think '99 & 00 were really the peak of Mika Hakkinen, because he still had better machinery than Schumi in 98, and probably had slightly the inferior machine in 00 but still kept it close. Prevailing thought was that if Ferrari could go toe to toe with McLaren with Eddie Irvine and Mika Salo, then the gap had been truly closed and with a fit and healthy Schumi they'd have too much for McLaren in 2000. Tyre war was also a significant factor, because for their first few seasons Michelin got the drop on Goodyear in a few areas, but through 98 and 99 GY got their act together to the point whereby they tended to be the far more adaptable tyre, whereas when the Michelin didn't work, it really didn't work. 97 + 98 close championships were really down to Schumi over-performing against better machinery. After 2000 McLaren fell away a good bit, and after BMW were fully bedded-in at Williams they were as much, if not more of a threat to Ferrari. So in my view, '97 and '98 were Schumi overperforming, '99 would have been where the balance tilted but for the accident, then 00 was what '99 should have been only McLaren was probably a bit closer on performance than they were in 99 even though they lost out on both titles. From 2001-04 was a simple case of best driver in best car with best support, hence total dominance, for the most part. The thing about Ferrari is they weren't really viewed as a "sleeping giant", they'd deteriorated to the point that they were pretty much regarded as a tin-pot, incompetent also-ran, along the lines of the other Italian "enthusiastic amateurs". Pit lane screw-ups, cars running out of fuel, engine explosions, everything that could go wrong did go wrong. To go from that to the utter machine they were from 98-06 took some doing, and I think Raikkonen's WDC and Massa's near miss were results of the residual hang-over from that era. Once that went completely what was left gradually became more akin to what they were in the first part of the 90's, and I can't really see that coming back until they once again have a driver and management team with strong enough personalities to overcome all the usual Ferrari-related bollocks. Schumacher was the runner-up in 1997 (though disqualified), 1998, and would have won in 1999 if his leg wasn't broken. It was very much the case that the wins and championships were on their way. Even in 96 Schumacher utterly out-performed the car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 Conveniently, the latest episode of the new And Colossally That's History podcast with Richard Williams and Matt BIshop talks about Schumacher. Weirdly, it doesn't seem to show up on all feeds (including Apple) but you can get it at https://podcast24.co.uk/podcasts/and-colossally-thats-history 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 On 09/04/2024 at 06:05, The Golden God said: Nobody knew who Ferrari were before 2000 it seems. I would have said fandom of teams is much more of a thing now than it's been since ~2000 since I started watching. I think Liberty have really pushed the branding and merchandising as part of the growth in popularity, so I don't know if that's actually the case or it just seems like it to me because I see people online paying ludicrous amounts for shiny tshirts covered in Brands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Only getting round to watching the new drive to survive now. The Williams Team principal is one boring b*****d to an even higher level than Christian Horner which is almost impressive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.Aye.R Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 12 hours ago, gannonball said: Only getting round to watching the new drive to survive now. The Williams Team principal is one boring b*****d to an even higher level than Christian Horner which is almost impressive. The only drinking caffeine on the weekend is the single most boring thing anyone has ever said 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.Aye.R Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Alonso staying put continues the disappointing trend of F1 happenings at the moment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 9 hours ago, V.Aye.R said: The only drinking caffeine on the weekend is the single most boring thing anyone has ever said It was like something out of the office or Alan Partridge. Fair play to the producers for keeping it in. Edited April 13 by gannonball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burattino Di Calzini Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 13 hours ago, V.Aye.R said: Alonso staying put continues the disappointing trend of F1 happenings at the moment. He's obviously gambling on having a good car in 2026 when Aston Martin hook up with Honda. That, or it was evident Mercedes were not interested in signing him. Probably a bit of both. Edited April 13 by Burattino Di Calzini can't type 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 Thinking about drivers who came from behind to win a title (as opposed to the current processions), the best example I can think of is Kimi Raikkonen in 2007. First half of the season, Alonso and Hamilton were streaking away with it. But Kimi was untouchable at the end. At one stage he was 30 points behind (10 for a win in those days). He was on the podium in each of the last 7 races (3 wins, 2 second places, 2 third places) and beat both the others by a single point in the last race of the season. Any other examples? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burattino Di Calzini Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) The only ones I can think of off hand are Nelson Piquet in 1981 and, er, Nelson Piquet in 1983. Edited April 16 by Burattino Di Calzini wrong year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 Vettel didn't lead the 2010 championship until the last race when he won it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Chinese GP this weekend. I am struggling to remember if these are good or not. The only one I remember is 2007, when Lewis Hamilton could have won the title there but binned the car coming into the pits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackie The Staggie Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Well, the news we all feared but hopped would never happen. Mika has officially announced the sabbatical was not a sabbatical, but a retirement after all....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 39 minutes ago, Mackie The Staggie said: Well, the news we all feared but hopped would never happen. Mika has officially announced the sabbatical was not a sabbatical, but a retirement after all....... I remember Williams being 90% of the way to signing Mika for 2005 (when they were half decent) but backed out when Jenson Button became available. Tinpot. Button ended up not moving in the end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 13 hours ago, scottsdad said: Chinese GP this weekend. I am struggling to remember if these are good or not. The only one I remember is 2007, when Lewis Hamilton could have won the title there but binned the car coming into the pits. Sounds like it could be good. The changes they've made to the track sound encouraging. 3 hours ago, Mackie The Staggie said: Well, the news we all feared but hopped would never happen. Mika has officially announced the sabbatical was not a sabbatical, but a retirement after all....... What? No! I thought he was just waiting for McLaren to be decent again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarto Mutiny Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 12 hours ago, Mackie The Staggie said: Well, the news we all feared but hopped would never happen. Mika has officially announced the sabbatical was not a sabbatical, but a retirement after all....... Mika was great. I loved him 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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