Scotland vs Argentina - Wednesday 19th June, 8pm

[andrewh]

Yes , we would but we would still agree they had been 'cheated' even if we enjoyedthe fact.

We should never have been in such a position as to have been “cheated.”
Through our own ineptitude (looking at the manageress) we created the conditions for our opponents to get the benefit they did.
Our own fault. Entirely.

[HibsFan]

I think the fundamental point is, who asked us if we wanted VAR?

The officials at the top decided it was coming in and TV has gone along with it.

It will change and/or ruin how we watch football, and yet we had no say in the matter?

[Assasinach]

That was some watch.

Feel for the team especially Cuthbert as she’d done well and was gutted at the end. 

I can’t be the only one that even though pleased at three nil up had some back of the head wee thing. 

How it was delivered was unexpected.

I do think there’ll be a few more folk with a new bad fascination.

[Arch Stanton]

Apparently, after watchng tonight's game, Robbie Neilson wants a rematch.

 

 

[parsforlife]

70's onwards, penalties shouldn't be a 50/50 or anywhere near it as most are stopping a high % scoring opportunity.

So your still talking about medicine balls and mud swamps then? Stepping/diving forward has been done pretty much universally since at least the early 90s. This spans the entire career of someone like Buffon, the entire lives of a lot more current pros yet they aren’t doing it right?

Penalties aren’t 50/50 or anywhere close. 75% for World Cup shootouts when nerves are at their highest and players not used to taking penalties are involved . 80% for last years premiership.

Citation needed on ‘majority stop a high % opportunity’, shots from inside the box are scored only 13% of the time. And given there is further punishment to the defender when the likelihood of scoring is considered clear. Vast majority of the time a penalty being awarded massively increases your chances vs had no foul taken place.

[Clyde01]

VAR is supposed to be used in cases where a clear and obvious error has been made. Telling the referee that a keepers foot is a couple of inches off the line is not a clear and obvious error IMO. It’s utter bollocks and if it’s enforced to that degree we are going to see penalties being retaken every week.

It should be the refs call whether the keeper has strayed off the line enough to warrant an infringement. It’s a judgment call, not a freeze frame analysis.

[Karpaty Lviv]

I take it if the keeper comes off the line twice at a penalty and a retaken penalty, then it’s a red card?

[Shotgun]

1 minute ago, Karpaty Lviv said:

I take it if the keeper comes off the line twice at a penalty and a retaken penalty, then it’s a red card?

I believe so, yes.

It's why people are speculating what's going to happen during the inevitable penalty shootouts in the later rounds. Keepers will almost certainly break this rule twice in 5 penalties so will the referees send them off and have another player take over? Then they'll get sent off and...it's a hot mess.

[pleslie99]

VAR is supposed to be used in cases where a clear and obvious error has been made. Telling the referee that a keepers foot is a couple of inches off the line is not a clear and obvious error IMO. It’s utter bollocks and if it’s enforced to that degree we are going to see penalties being retaken every week.

It should be the refs call whether the keeper has strayed off the line enough to warrant an infringement. It’s a judgment call, not a freeze frame analysis.

Couldn't agree more. It seems that VAR has brought In the ability for the ref to not make decisions and allow 'upstairs" to do it for them. This is not football. Allow the ref to referee and if there is a clear mistake change it, if not move on. By clear mistake I also mean clear, not one that takes 50 views at 40 different angles to decide to let the ref onfield have another 15minute view of the incident.

[miloman]

Agree to disagree.
If point 1 never happened, points 2 and 3 are irrelevant. We lost the game because of said bed shiteing. The rest, for me, is gravy on the pork chop.

Game was lost due to abysmal referee but more so because some of the Scots were knackered and done in, subs should have been brought on to freshen it up once we went 3 nil up!!
Still think they did well for first ever World Cup.

[Lurkst]

To our younger readers, this is what it used to be like every 4 years...

 

[Ginaro]

6 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

12 minutes ago, Clyde01 said:

VAR is supposed to be used in cases where a clear and obvious error has been made. Telling the referee that a keepers foot is a couple of inches off the line is not a clear and obvious error IMO. It’s utter bollocks and if it’s enforced to that degree we are going to see penalties being retaken every week.

It should be the refs call whether the keeper has strayed off the line enough to warrant an infringement. It’s a judgment call, not a freeze frame analysis.

Couldn't agree more. It seems that VAR has brought In the ability for the ref to not make decisions and allow 'upstairs" to do it for them. This is not football. Allow the ref to referee and if there is a clear mistake change it, if not move on. By clear mistake I also mean clear, not one that takes 50 views at 40 different angles to decide to let the ref onfield have another 15minute view of the incident.

Pretty clear she made a decision of no penalty, which was a mistake. Maybe the referee was adamant that the Scotland player got the ball, and had to be shown all the angles to disprove that?

Clear and obvious doesn't apply for the goal line - just like offside it's a factual yes or no decision for a serious missed incident so it can be reviewed by VAR.

31 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

I think the fundamental point is, who asked us if we wanted VAR?

The officials at the top decided it was coming in and TV has gone along with it.

It will change and/or ruin how we watch football, and yet we had no say in the matter?

There was a match changing mistake made by the referee in not awarding the stonewall penalty to Argentina. If that was at the other end we'd be screaming for VAR, and if it happened in a match without VAR people would be calling for it to be introduced.

[The_Kincardine]

5 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

To our younger readers, this is what it used to be like every 4 years...

 

Not really.  The lassies pretty-much played to form and a fair few of them didn't seem fit enough to play at this level.

[Lurkst]

4 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Not really.  The lassies pretty-much played to form and a fair few of them didn't seem fit enough to play at this level.

The form book can't mask the crushing disappointment of a tournament exit

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, andrewh said:

We should never have been in such a position as to have been “cheated.”
Through our own ineptitude (looking at the manageress) we created the conditions for our opponents to get the benefit they did.
Our own fault. Entirely.

"Manageress"

 

Get yersel tae f**k.

[GordonS]

Back, showered, watered.

1) That's a choke. No two ways about it. You don't lose a three goal lead in the last 15 minutes in a match you've mostly controlled without some heads going. Same old problem, a weak defence. Bad positioning and stupid panicky clearances. Lauder was dead on her feet and that led to one of the goals, I don't know why subs weren't made sooner. Lisa Evans barely made a successful pass in the whole game. But it was a choke that didn't have to be a calamity.

2) Caroline Weir is a God. Erin Cuthbert must be an absolute pain in the backside to play against. Neither deserve to be going home yet.

3) I've sort-of reserved judgment on VAR until experiencing it at a game. I'm now totally happy saying I'd rather go back to having more mistaken decisions than have this shit. Sitting there twiddling your thumbs for 5 minutes while some fannybaws in a box somewhere makes a decision. In rugby it's all on the big screen, you see exactly what the ref sees and you can hear the discussion if you want too. It's done quicker as you don't have the review, then the ref going to see for themselves. Rugby is also more broken up in general, with scrums, line-outs and penalties. VAR is for people who watch football on TV, but it's a huge clunking hole in the experience for those in the ground. If it can't be done like rugby then it should be binned - and in particular, it's anathema to what's good about Scottish football so we shouldn't even think about it.

4) The referee was a shitebag. 19's foul on Cuthbert in the bottom-left corner was a straight red. She booked one of our defenders because an Argentinian told her too. At one point there were two balls on the pitch, after play stopped Lee Alexander remonstrated with the lino about it as play should definitely have been stopped. The ref nearly booked her for timewasting. She let Argentina lump a free kick into the box the second our sub had come on - when does that ever happen? She blew for full time one minute after 4 minutes had been announced - fine, the four minutes may have started earlier, but did anyone tell the players? I've never see a match end in such confusion. All-in-all, a woefully inept performance from an official who shouldn't be troubling the knock-out games. Time to go home.

5) Same as on Monday night - if that's a re-take, then every single penalty I've ever seen was against the rules. And you can bet your arse there's absolutely no chance a decision like that gets given against a big country.

6) So in the end it was a 1986, but with a twist - blowing a three goal lead.

[andrewh]

"Manageress"
 
Get yersel tae f**k.

You’re demonstrating quite the penchant for being offended.
Of course, take issue with what someone says, but don’t respond in such an aggressive manner. It diminishes your tolerant attitude to naught.

[GordonS]

Just now, andrewh said:

You’re demonstrating quite the penchant for being offended.
Of course, take issue with what someone says, but don’t respond in such an aggressive manner. It diminishes your tolerant attitude to naught.

I don't have a tolerant attitude. I'm not that guy. I'm the guy that gets angry at people being asshats about women.

[Cerberus]

The retake of the penalty is utterly bizarre.
No way is VAR that anal in men’s football.

That said the 2nd goal was horrific goalkeeping. Gotta keep that out.

[HibsFan]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

There was a match changing mistake made by the referee in not awarding the stonewall penalty to Argentina. If that was at the other end we'd be screaming for VAR, and if it happened in a match without VAR people would be calling for it to be introduced.

I wouldn't be screaming for VAR, it's just one of those things and watching football is a lot more enjoyable without it. People who really want technology to make the outcomes of football matches 100% accurate for some sort of closure and/or validation need to grow up.