The General Ross County Chat Thread

[Mackie The Staggie]

1 hour ago, Pete the Jakey said:

David Martindale, convicted drug dealer and gangster - great guy. 

Stephen Robinson - allegedly verbally and physically abusing his missus on a bridge in Edinburgh - great guy. 

Neil Lennon - Threatened to cut his mistresses throat with a knife - great guy. 

Malky Mackay - has his phone hacked and private messages published - should never work in football again. 

The hypocrisy is bonkers.  Mackay has built the most diverse squad Ross County have ever had, including two victims of racist abuse in Dhanda and Charles-Cook, but that counts for nothing.  Anyway, this is the last I'll mention it, as I'm boring myself now.  For what its worth I think its time for him to go, for footballing reasons.  

I don't think anyone really thinks Lennon is a great guy and the Robinson one.....well there's a reason why allegedly is used (as far as I know it's never gone to court or anything like that), but the Martindale example is a great reason why Malky should be far fucking removed from the club. 

Martindale has owned what he's done, never shrinks from it, talks openly about it and has served his time for what he did.  In fact, the Martindale story should be championed as it's very difficult to come out of prison and make a success in this day and age with the stigma that is forever attached, but he's done it.

I don't believe Malky has ever owned what he did, not truly.  When it first came out it was denial after denial....then deflections....then some small resemblance of acceptance and then a simple apology.  As for serving time, he got a management role with Wigan instead of the Palace job straight after before moving to a comfy role within the SFA. 

As for learning from it....well cast your mind back to last year when there were allegations of racist comments coming from within the County support in a game away to Dundee Utd. This prompted Courts to make a statement after the match by holding up a "Say No to Racism" shirt towards the County support.  Now when asked about this, instead of seeing the perfect opportunity to lead from the front, he instead decded to attack Courts.  That was the moment that confirmed my decision to stay away while he's there.

[capt_oats]

13 minutes ago, Mackie The Staggie said:

I don't think anyone really thinks Lennon is a great guy and the Robinson one.....well there's a reason why allegedly is used (as far as I know it's never gone to court or anything like that), but the Martindale example is a great reason why Malky should be far fucking removed from the club. 

The Robinson case went to court. He was found not guilty.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/motherwell-manager-stephen-robinson-found-21599627

[Pete the Jakey]

So what I’m getting is that if Malky had at some point taken ownership of his offensive messages, and used it as a force for good then he would not be the pariah figure he is now?
 

Restorative justice is a practice that is being used in sport to move on from past wrongs, especially in cricket. If Malky had entered into this process would it all be well and good? It’s all about the optics really isn’t it. It’s not what kind of person you are, it’s how you come across.  

I feel like I’m defending him here, which wasn’t ever my intention, I just can’t get my head around the fact that folk are boycotting a 100 year old club over this when no conviction was served, but a 4 year jail sentence is acceptable. Football fans are fickle AF.

[Pete the Jakey]

33 minutes ago, Mackie The Staggie said:

I don't think anyone really thinks Lennon is a great guy and the Robinson one.....well there's a reason why allegedly is used (as far as I know it's never gone to court or anything like that), but the Martindale example is a great reason why Malky should be far fucking removed from the club. 

Martindale has owned what he's done, never shrinks from it, talks openly about it and has served his time for what he did.  In fact, the Martindale story should be championed as it's very difficult to come out of prison and make a success in this day and age with the stigma that is forever attached, but he's done it.

I don't believe Malky has ever owned what he did, not truly.  When it first came out it was denial after denial....then deflections....then some small resemblance of acceptance and then a simple apology.  As for serving time, he got a management role with Wigan instead of the Palace job straight after before moving to a comfy role within the SFA. 

As for learning from it....well cast your mind back to last year when there were allegations of racist comments coming from within the County support in a game away to Dundee Utd. This prompted Courts to make a statement after the match by holding up a "Say No to Racism" shirt towards the County support.  Now when asked about this, instead of seeing the perfect opportunity to lead from the front, he instead decded to attack Courts.  That was the moment that confirmed my decision to stay away while he's there.

Again, I’m not sure why I’m defending him but he was in a no win situation here. 
 

a) Throw the fan under the bus by accepting without evidence there was racist abuse, despite the fact it was unknown at this stage whether racism had occurred.

b) Stand by the fan and state his opinion that the racism was unsubstantiated and would be investigated.

Neither of those outcomes is going to paint him in good light especially with his past. The claims of racism were investigated and subsequently found to be inaccurate.

I think he is guilty of racist texts, guilty of not having the wear with all to take ownership of his rehabilitation, and guilty of not managing his reputation. I’ll leave my thoughts on his tactical management for another day.

[Pete the Jakey]

Sorry, one more thing before I leave you in peace. I don’t judge anyone for boycotting or for having an opinion different to mine. Nor do I want Malky as our manager next season for footballing reasons. I just find the nuances of football morality very interesting. There are some absolute c***s in the game, yet some are lauded whilst others are ostracised. It really is a pantomime. 

[forkboy]

4 hours ago, Pete the Jakey said:

So what I’m getting is that if Malky had at some point taken ownership of his offensive messages, and used it as a force for good then he would not be the pariah figure he is now?
 

Restorative justice is a practice that is being used in sport to move on from past wrongs, especially in cricket. If Malky had entered into this process would it all be well and good? It’s all about the optics really isn’t it. It’s not what kind of person you are, it’s how you come across.  

I feel like I’m defending him here, which wasn’t ever my intention, I just can’t get my head around the fact that folk are boycotting a 100 year old club over this when no conviction was served, but a 4 year jail sentence is acceptable. Football fans are fickle AF.

No, it's not all about optics. It is partially I guess, because of the nature of football fans relationship with the manager of their club is generally not very personal, I do not know Malky Mackay the person, I know Malky Mackay the football manager & can only judge him on that.

Bringing up Martindale as a point of comparison just doesn't work. David Martindale admitted guilt, literally paid for his crimes, having had 6 figures of assets seized, as well as spending years in prison. Now, if you don't believe that rehabilitation should be a key component of the justice system, fine I guess (well, no, it's not, it's insane, but that's a topic for another day & place), but for now it is, & it's impossible to stay rehabilitated if you are deprived of employment when you get out of prison. Way I look at it, Martindale admitted his crimes, did his time, started doing part-time work for his local club. Would I call him a great guy? I don't know him so I wouldn't. But his story is at least on the outside a pretty optimistic tale of fucking up & then bettering yourself.

Malky Mackay's tale is a guy who played football at a high level, went into management at a high level, sent his text messages, apologised for 2 of them in the usual mealy-mouthed "sorry if you were offended but it was just some bantz" way. He was out of the game for 3 months after the text messages went public before being appointed manager by Wigan (to general uproar from fans), he got sacked 5 months after that for an abysmal record of 19 points from 24 league games as Wigan got relegated. He then had 18 months between that gig & the Performance Director role at the SFA. Other than missing the Crystal Palace job & some griping from fans, what repercussions has Malky faced?

Maybe Malky genuinely regrets what he did, I dunno. But he's done very little to show it publicly and that's all we can judge him on. Not asking for him to wear a cilice and doing penance that way, but certainly asking for more than we've got. Is it fair? The text messages only became public knowledge because of a fallout with the Cardiff board, but they did. What can I say? I don't like racists. And I don't think I'm being fickle, I feel like I'm being internally consistent within my own world view.

[StoneThrowAway]

Why are we even still talking about this!? Everyone is on the same page that MM should be given his jotters… good riddance. 

[tree house tam]

8 hours ago, Pete the Jakey said:

 especially in cricket. 

[Pete the Jakey]

4 hours ago, forkboy said:

What can I say? I don't like racists. And I don't think I'm being fickle, I feel like I'm being internally consistent within my own world view.

Do you honestly think that with the squads we've had over the past two years that Malky is currently a racist?  Was the minutes applause for Regan Charles-Cook, which brought a tear to my eye not a strong enough statement?  

Yes he is a dinosaur, yes he is not in the slightest bit media savvy, but I've seen nothing since he came to Ross County that suggests he's not learnt from his mistakes, albeit he hasn't projected that well at all.

[dingdong1929]

As a general statement - I dont think the use of black labour disqualifies someone from being a racist...

To be clear, thats a devil's advocate comment. I'm not implying County would run a plantation.

Edited June 8, 2023 by dingdong1929

[dingdong1929]

But aye, its been 2 years, discussions on the text-saga are just flogging a really boring horse corpse.

And without getting a financial model based on questionnaires to all County fans, am gonna assume that most folk will project their horse-corpse-thoughts onto the associated financial impact on the club.

Am gonna do a Lester Piggott and leave the horse alone now*.


* euphemism, am not gonna die so I never have to talk about Malky MacKay again, as tempting as that is at times.

Edited June 8, 2023 by dingdong1929

[Sensible Soccer🏴]

Well that's my new season ticket bought, looking forward to another year of live Scottish Premiership at Vicky Park

[forkboy]

4 hours ago, Pete the Jakey said:

Do you honestly think that with the squads we've had over the past two years that Malky is currently a racist?  Was the minutes applause for Regan Charles-Cook, which brought a tear to my eye not a strong enough statement?  

Yes he is a dinosaur, yes he is not in the slightest bit media savvy, but I've seen nothing since he came to Ross County that suggests he's not learnt from his mistakes, albeit he hasn't projected that well at all.

The guy who owned the LA Clippers, a basketball team with an overwhelmingly black group of players, was caught saying some properly racist shit. Having minority employees is entirely coherent with a racist, and neither proves nor disproves that.

[Staggie_93]

Morton, FC Edinburgh, Kelty Hearts and Stranraer in the League Cup draw. Couple of teams we’ve never played a competitive game before in Kelty and FC Edinburgh (as far as I know) so not a bad draw. Should be looking to progress through that group without many issues, although we struggled against the likes of Buckie Thistle last year so who knows.

[Pete the Jakey]

1 hour ago, dingdong1929 said:

As a general statement - I dont think the use of black labour disqualifies someone from being a racist...

To be clear, thats a devil's advocate comment. I'm not implying County would run a plantation.

But you can be pro-active with your employment of ethnic minorities, which we are.  Although tongue in cheek, talk of plantations doesn't help.

[Pete the Jakey]

12 minutes ago, forkboy said:

The guy who owned the LA Clippers, a basketball team with an overwhelmingly black group of players, was caught saying some properly racist shit. Having minority employees is entirely coherent with a racist, and neither proves nor disproves that.

Fair point.

[Pete the Jakey]

1 hour ago, dingdong1929 said:

But aye, its been 2 years, discussions on the text-saga are just flogging a really boring horse corpse.
 

I know, I'm sorry.  I am actually boring myself.  Piggot was a legend.

[forkboy]

9 minutes ago, Staggie_93 said:

Morton, FC Edinburgh, Kelty Hearts and Stranraer in the League Cup draw. Couple of teams we’ve never played a competitive game before in Kelty and FC Edinburgh (as far as I know) so not a bad draw. Should be looking to progress through that group without many issues, although we struggled against the likes of Buckie Thistle last year so who knows.

Hope Kelty and Edinburgh are away ties, nice to see some new grounds.

But yeah, fun draw

[morrison]

Just now, forkboy said:

Hope Kelty and Edinburgh are away ties, nice to see some new grounds.

But yeah, fun draw

If the pattern holds from previous years, it'll be Edinburgh & Stranraer away.

[Forfinn]

9 minutes ago, forkboy said:

Hope Kelty and Edinburgh are away ties, nice to see some new grounds.

But yeah, fun draw

You won't be saying that after being at the new Meadowbank, but worth doing once for the novelty value.