Leith Green Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 41 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: He’ll be able to support that with accuracy statistics. It will have improved the accuracy of decision making at a statistical level, and man tasked with defending the investment will push that as far as he can. I suppose the devils advocate response to that is that stats tell only half the story with this system. What we dont know is - are refs and linos, consciously or subconsciously, thinking that "VAR will bail me out" when making a decision.............and therefore shiting it from making the "correct" decision onfield? Then, if VAR misses it we are in a world of conspiracy theories etc etc I dont know the answer, but what we were told pre-VAR - that it would tidy up these inconsistencies - is utter bollocks. p.s. I am not arguing with you, I know we are both frustrated with this bag of shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houston_bud Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 12 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said: It's never going to be run properly. I'm inclined to agree, but there are definitely places where it's used much better. I've been to a few games in Korea recently and they definitely intervene a lot less there. At half time of the first game I went to, I had assumed there was no VAR. There was one check in the whole game, for a red card. The ref immediately went to the monitor when play stopped and pulled out the red card in about 30 seconds. I'd still get rid of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 44 minutes ago, KingswellsRed said: So the results are conclusive. Surely clubs can’t continue to ignore the feeling of fans. Somehow we need to make it known. I honestly think it takes on set of fans to start protesting when a decision is referred to the monitor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 49 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Using VAR replays is making the decisions more accurate - I don't think you could question that. The trade off is more accuracy for a poorer fan experience. If we went back to football without VAR then I think the same old complaints would creep back in. There isn't a perfect solution, it's a trade off. Its not a trade off though. Quite possibly folk are complaining more than they were before. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 One thing that VAR and the associated tedious and endless debates have shown conclusively is that a lot of the laws and their application are highly subjective. If experienced former refs are taking opposing views on the same incident despite having had days to consider it and watch replays, it's safe to say that there's not always a definitive right answer. If there isn't a definitive right answer, talking about accuracy is meaningless. It's not just that 100% accuracy can't be achieved, it's that there's no consensus about what it even looks like. Offside is probably an exception, but i am unconvinced that improved accuracy is a significant benefit, let alone worth the confusion caused by late (and inconsistent) flags. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I'd be fine with it limited to the job of a glorified linesman: checking offsides and if the ball has crossed the line. But the system would need to work a lot quicker than it does now. I'd also be mildly okay with it checking penalties that have been given by the ref, as play stops for ages then anyway. Despite being on the wrong side of three VAR decisions on that dark day in Dingwall, it was McTominay against Spain which had me putting anthrax in envelopes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Melanius Mullarkey said: Its not a trade off though. Quite possibly folk are complaining more than they were before. Sure it is. You could have less accuracy in decision making and no VAR, like it was 5 years ago or VAR and an interrupted fan experience with more accuracy in decision making. Fans will always complain regardless of what we have as they see things from their own point of view, which is why we need refs in the first place. Edited February 20 by 2426255 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, 2426255 said: Sure it is. You could have less accuracy in decision making and no VAR, like it was 5 years ago or VAR and an interrupted fan experience with more accuracy in decision making. Fans will always complain regardless of what we have as they see things from their own point of view, which is why we need refs in the first place. Has there been a comparison of accuracy between VAR/no VAR? I havent seen anything. ETA just came across 2018 Mens World cup analysis which said VAR "increased accuracy" by a whopping 3.75% for the whole tournament. Laughable. Would like to see a study on the repeatability/reproducibility of the VAR lines that can measure a bollock hair difference between two players, one unsighted by multiple cameras. Im quite happy with a 95% success rate if it helps with entertainment. Edited February 20 by Melanius Mullarkey 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 It's absolutely shite, but we're stuck with it. If i was going to suggest a change it'd be a 20 second limit on any check before referring the ref to a monitor then move on. If it's no blatantly wrong immediately, then its no what it was for 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said: It's absolutely shite, but we're stuck with it. If i was going to suggest a change it'd be a 20 second limit on any check before referring the ref to a monitor then move on. If it's no blatantly wrong immediately, then its no what it was for It's definitely got to have a check time limit on it. I'd say a minute max. I think any VAR intervention outwith offside has to be instigated by the referee to bring responsibility back to them. I like the idea of a challenge system for each manager but I don't know how well that would work in reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I think those saying it is Scottish refs that are the problem should watch some of the shite decisions made in the money leagues. It's the system that's poor 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 21 minutes ago, Pens_Dark said: It's definitely got to have a check time limit on it. I'd say a minute max. I think any VAR intervention outwith offside has to be instigated by the referee to bring responsibility back to them. I like the idea of a challenge system for each manager but I don't know how well that would work in reality. The issue I have with a time limit is the panic that will come with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 minutes ago, DukDukGoose said: The issue I have with a time limit is the panic that will come with it. The issue they will have with time limit is the inability to check the build up. As an example, rangers hissy fit from the OF game for a correct decision - in a parallel world with time limits, a referee may give the handball within your window of time but not have enough time to check the fact he was actually offside. If they get a pen when he was offside all along then we see the same outrage in reverse. There just isn’t a way to get accuracy and consistency whilst not disrupting the game and upsetting the paying customer. And that’s before you even get to the fact that many decisions are subjective and complex in any case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingswellsRed Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Is there anybody on here with any behind the scenes insight at a club? I know it was previously rumoured Aberdeen said they would vote against VAR if there was ever another vote on it but if that genuinely is their view, they need to come out and say it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 No time limits for me, if you are stopping the game may as well get it right. Id get rid of the screen, pointless going to it as will always change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, DiegoDiego said: I'd be fine with it limited to the job of a glorified linesman: checking offsides and if the ball has crossed the line. But the system would need to work a lot quicker than it does now. Faurly sure Italy, and England (now or soon), have automated offside calls. So its done almost instantly by a computer rather than humans placing the lines as we have. We'll never afford that though. The only technology needed in football, as technology stands, is goal line technology. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: Faurly sure Italy, and England (now or soon), have automated offside calls. So its done almost instantly by a computer rather than humans placing the lines as we have. We'll never afford that though. The only technology needed in football, as technology stands, is goal line technology. I think the call it 'semi-automated' so there is still a level of human input but I may be wrong in that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, Pens_Dark said: I think the call it 'semi-automated' so there is still a level of human input but I may be wrong in that. Aye youre right, although looks like English football rejected the chance to move to that? Seen a story claiming it wouldnt happen due to some league wide sponsorship with Nike. Truly a sham of a league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said: Aye youre right, although looks like English football rejected the chance to move to that? Seen a story claiming it wouldnt happen due to some league wide sponsorship with Nike. Truly a sham of a league. There was a huge fuss made over the premier league and its clubs refusing to use this semi-automated technology and it may well have been around the time of the Liverpool offside goal farce earlier in the season. As usual I think the premier league were wanting to be the big league to go against the grain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 16 hours ago, 2426255 said: f**k them. Deserve what they get. When it comes down to it, we could have a fair system if people like you say just grew up. We wouldn't even need referees. Instead we now have this, because people are always putting self interest first. It's nothing to do with VAR. Its not just about people "growing up" hearts for example were denied a stonewall absolute 100% penalty at 0-0 at home in a game they eventually dropped two points in because the ref it would seem never had the correct view of the foul If the VAR operator had done his job the ref would see the mistake and award the penalty, but because the VAR guy never, it makes VAR look shite Would fans prefer 2 officials behind the goals and 4 linesmen to try catch things refs missed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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