The Falkirk FC Thread

[Stuperman01]

12 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

I'd have Craigen back based on his Dunfermline form. Also Longridge and Hippolyte.

 

Is it us, are we just shite at getting perfomances out of players?

Think back to when these players first signed with us we thought they were going to be good, they will show their true form soon enough IMO

[Shodwall cat]

35 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

So much crap in this thread. So a guy gets released by his club and that means his options are limited? He can sign for literally any club in the world, if there is interest. The only ones that had no other options, were the violent thug, the dick waver and the drug dealer. They signed for Livi because they offered, and continued to offer, the most money. Not hard, is it? The fact that a lot have jumped shift suggests more that there is something rotten going on, yet again, at the club. Someone said it's because Championship clubs can offer more money. So why not leave at the start of last season? Seems strange that a club that could retain championship players in the championship can't do so in the Premiership with an increase in money.

 

Did you take a moment to think about the club you are talking about, Marshy, or did you just launch into your usual hyperbolic bullshit? This is a club with multiple administrations under the belt, that has no issues employing convicted criminals and claims to have no money whilst employing Kenny Miller. And, if your buddy Yogi is to be believed, is receiving funding from a former convicted drug dealer who apparently had all his cash seized by the courts. Add into that the multiple times the courts have had to get involved to remove members of the board and chairmen from the board. Sure, there's nothing going on...

They couldnt just leave if they were  under contract for starters. They signed for Livi because Livi took a punt on them as they had tried and failed at a higher level before . Livi gave them another chance when noone else could.  Scott Pitman was playing for feckin bo'ness for gods sake. Do you think it was going to cost a fortune to sign him and that Livi were the ones at the top of a long queue of suitors? No they took a chance on him and its worked out. Same with Scott Robinson who had failed at Hearts, failed at killie and was playing with East fife before Livi signed him up.  Byrne signed from Dunfermline who freed him when they were in league one. Do you think championship clubs were lining up to sign a player freed by a mid table league one side? Of course not but again livi took a punt on him. Jackson Longridge was another player who had failed at championship level before and had to go down the levels to Stranraer before Livi signed him.  Noone else thought these players were good enough to play at championship level as most had already tried  and failed there already. Livi and Hopkin thought differently and it worked. Livi didnt outbid championship sides for these players. Championship sides werent interested until they did the business this season. Livi are a dubiously run club but lets not try to pretend that the team they assembled that was good enough to win promotion were on a fortune . It was still a tight budget that was a good bit smaller than ours.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Shodwall cat

[Shodwall cat]

11 minutes ago, Stuperman01 said:

Really you are counting the league cup even after PH stated these games would be used to try out new tactics etc??

We're still trying out new tactics the now.  I'm all for using the league cup to get the team ready for the league campaign but we're still a million miles away from knowing our best team and we're two games in.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Shodwall cat

[Guest Back Post Misses]

As I said I was no great fan of Craigens . I didnt think he was good enough to play in a team wanting to win promotion to the top flight.  At the moment though  if it was a straight choice between him and some of the replacements then I certainly wouldn't dismiss having him back instead. Same with longridge and hippo.The likes of TOE , Sammut and Petravicious have done nowt so far to say their any better if not worse. We at least got a few decent performances out of craigen in the Dundee United playoff fixtures for example. None of the current players have put out performances of that standard so far or have shown anything to say they are capable of that. We need better than craigen to win the league but thats not saying that he isnt better than what we currently have.

The way that Craigen down tools at Tannadice last season I am shocked anyone would want that wage thief back

[DeeBairn]

12 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

They couldnt just leave if they were  under contract for starters. They signed for Livi because Livi took a punt on them as they had tried and failed at a higher level before . Livi gave them another chance when noone else could.  Scott Pitman was playing for feckin bo'ness for gods sake. Do you think it was going to cost a fortune to sign him and that Livi were the ones at the top of a long queue of suitors? No they took a chance on him and its worked out. Same with Scott Robinson who had failed at Hearts, failed at killie and was playing with East fife before Livi signed him up.  Byrne signed from Dunfermline who freed him when they were in league one. Do you think championship clubs were lining up to sign a player freed by a mid table league one side? Of course not but again livi took a punt on him. Jackson Longridge was another player who had failed at championship level before and had to go down the levels to Stranraer before Livi signed him.  Noone else thought these players were good enough to play at championship level as most had already tried  and failed there already. Livi and Hopkin thought differently and it worked. Livi didnt outbid championship sides for these players. Championship sides werent interested until they did the business this season. Livi are a dubiously run club but lets not try to pretend that the team they assembled that was good enough to win promotion were on a fortune . It was still a tight budget that was a good bit smaller than ours.

Who said anything about players under contract? I'm talking about players who have been released. You said their options would be limited. I said the opposite. Because, Y'know, they are free agents. All any of this tells me is that Livi can spot a player who has been over looked. Is that not what we should be doing?

 

Utterly full of supposition. How do you know who was or wasn't interested in any of those players? Scott Robinson was a failure at Hearts? The guy who played 8 games shy of a century? Your assumption is that because they were playing lower league football and went to Livi, nobody else must have been interested. What are you backing that up with? Jackson Longridge played 9 games for Ayr as a 18 year old and you're claiming he failed at championship level, you melon!? Who said they were on a fortune? I said they are likely playing them more than they are letting on.

Edited August 24, 2018 by DeeBairn

[Shodwall cat]

15 minutes ago, Back Post Misses said:

 

The way that Craigen down tools at Tannadice last season I am shocked anyone would want that wage thief back

 

Again its only in comparison to what we have now.  He's shown he can perform on the odd occasion at this level.  The crew we have now have yet to do that or put any more effort in than he did.. I'd rather just have some decent players good enough to challenge for the league title but who knows when that may happen. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Shodwall cat

[squeekybairn]

The sun will come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!

Just thinking about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
'Til there's none!

When I'm stuck in a day
That's gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh

 

The sun will come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may

Tomorrow!
Tomorrow!
I love ya
Tomorrow!

You're always a day away

Read more: Annie - Tomorrow Lyrics | MetroLyrics 

[Shodwall cat]

11 minutes ago, DeeBairn said:

Utterly full of supposition. How do you know who was or wasn't interested in any of those players? Scott Robinson was a failure at Hearts? The guy who played 8 games shy of a century? Your assumption is that because they were playing lower league football and went to Livi, nobody else must have been interested. What are you backing that up with? Jackson Longridge played 9 games for Ayr as a 18 year old and you're claiming he failed at championship level, you melon!? Who said they were on a fortune? I said they are likely playing them more than they are letting on.

He was freed by Hearts at the age of 23.  He went to Kilmarnock signed a 3 year contract and played 12 games. He signed for Dunfermline and could only manage 2 games at league one level. He was again freed and was picked up by east fife  before Livi.   Their a team of misfts and guys that have failed to make the grade elsewhere who will be on small wages . How they fund these wages is another question but their budget will be much smaller than ours and that is the crux of the matter. Hopkin put together a team of players on a tight budget that was one of the smallest in the league and got them up whilst we had the second biggest budget and came 8th.  What might Hopkin have done with our budget?  Unfortunately we may never know. Whatever you say about the way Livi are run you can't argue that they arent far better at picking a manager than we are.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Shodwall cat

[Bairnardo]

The way that Craigen down tools at Tannadice last season I am shocked anyone would want that wage thief back

This. And I was one of Craigens defenders at various points in his spell with us, until it became clear that he was one of the ones happy to see make club suffer and put Peter Houston out of a job by downing tools in front of paying fans.

f**k him. And its pretty fucking ludicrous revisionism to speak about him in terms other than those really. I dont give a f**k how he is doing for Dunfermline, and his shambolic performance that day at Tannadice (and others btw) superceded any good he did up there in the playoffs the season before.

Out of us and Dunfermline, I would suggest we are the ones that have seen Craigens true colours. They might never. They might have a steady Championship performer as long as he is there. I still dont care. And if he came available, I personally wouldnt be sendong Sammut home so we could take the wee rat back.

[Shodwall cat]

4 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

This. And I was one of Craigens defenders at various points in his spell with us, until it became clear that he was one of the ones happy to see make club suffer and put Peter Houston out of a job by downing tools in front of paying fans.

f**k him. And its pretty fucking ludicrous revisionism to speak about him in terms other than those really. I dont give a f**k how he is doing for Dunfermline, and his shambolic performance that day at Tannadice (and others btw) superceded any good he did up there in the playoffs the season before.

Out of us and Dunfermline, I would suggest we are the ones that have seen Craigens true colours. They might never. They might have a steady Championship performer as long as he is there. I still dont care. And if he came available, I personally wouldnt be sendong Sammut home so we could take the wee rat back.

I think his nose was put out of joint by Houston picking mckee ahead of him at the start of last season . I think he felt that after his excellent performances in the playoffs the season before he should've been first pick.  When the going got tough he certainly wasnt up for it along with a number of others , some of whom are still here unfortunately.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Shodwall cat

[DeeBairn]

4 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

He was freed by Hearts at the age of 23.  He went to Kilmarnock signed a 3 year contract and played 12 games. He signed for Dunfermline and could only manage 2 games at league one level. He was again freed and was picked up by east fife  before Livi.   Their a team of misfts and guys that have failed to make the grade elsewhere who will be on small wages . How they fund these wages is another question but their budget will be much smaller than ours and that is the crux of the matter. Hopkin put together a team of players on a tight budget that was one of the smallest in the league and got them up whilst we had the second biggest budget and came 8th.  What might Hopkin have done with our budget?  Unfortunately we may never know. Whatever you say about the way Livi are run you can't argue that they arent far better at picking a manager than we are.

So a guy who plays 92 games before the age of 23 and then is allowed to leave when his contract expires is a failure? May have been unlucky or inconsistent after Hearts but to say he failed at Hearts? Sorry, but no. No comback on Longridge, by the way?

[Bairnardo]

I trhink his nose was put out of joint by Houston picking mckee ahead of him at the start of last season even after his excellent performances against Dundee United in the playoffs the season before.

McKee and Craigen were our best players in those games.

Nevertheless, someone happy to absolutely stink the place out in front of paying fans should never be discussed never mind welcomed back. Wee shitebag.

[DeeBairn]

8 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

McKee and Craigen were our best players in those games.

Nevertheless, someone happy to absolutely stink the place out in front of paying fans should never be discussed never mind welcomed back. Wee shitebag.

If that's the case, we could well be fucked for players come January. 

[Shodwall cat]

1 minute ago, DeeBairn said:

So a guy who plays 92 games before the age of 23 and then is allowed to leave when his contract expires is a failure? May have been unlucky or inconsistent after Hearts but to say he failed at Hearts? Sorry, but no. No comback on Longridge, by the way?

Its no really the point whether he was unlucky or not . We're not disputing the fact that he is a decent player . The thing is livi took a punt on these players.  What did they see that Dunfermline didnt see?  Longridge had been at Ayr and released . I presume by that Ayr felt he wasnt good enough.  He went to Stranraer and then Livi took a punt on him . They saw a player in him that others hadnt. 

Anyway we're going off at a tangent here. The main crux is that David Hopkin took a team with a much smaller budget than ours and got them up when we've been banging away for nearly ten years trying to do that .  Whether their budget is bigger than it should be doesn't effect that as it still smaller than ours which was the second biggest in the league last season as confirmed by our manager and bod.  I don't want our club to be run off the field like Livi but as I've just said they can pick a manager far better than our mob have managed so far.  Get the right manager in charge and anything is possible as Hopkin and Ross showed last season.  Is hartley the man ??

[Bairn Necessities]

12 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

McKee and Craigen were our best players in those games.

Nevertheless, someone happy to absolutely stink the place out in front of paying fans should never be discussed never mind welcomed back. Wee shitebag.

Didn't really surprise me Craigen did OK elsewhere. I thought he was no bad. Bit slow though. 

Can't be looking back though. Let's spend the next couple of months identifying who needs to get to f**k in January or the summer. We're fucked for promotion this season. 

[DeeBairn]

8 minutes ago, Shodwall cat said:

Its no really the point whether he was unlucky or not . We're not disputing the fact that he is a decent player . The thing is livi took a punt on these players.  What did they see that Dunfermline didnt see?  Longridge had been at Ayr and released . I presume by that Ayr felt he wasnt good enough.  He went to Stranraer and then Livi took a punt on him . They saw a player in him that others hadnt. 

Anyway we're going off at a tangent here. The main crux is that David Hopkin took a team with a much smaller budget than ours and got them up when we've been banging away for nearly ten years trying to do that .  Whether their budget is bigger than it should be doesn't effect that as it still smaller than ours which was the second biggest in the league last season as confirmed by our manager and bod.  I don't want our club to be run off the field like Livi but as I've just said they can pick a manager far better than our mob have managed so far.  Get the right manager in charge and anything is possible as Hopkin and Ross showed last season.  Is hartley the man ??

Longridge played 8 games as a teenager. Either his contract was expiring and Ayr didn't want him, or they let him go to save money. Did they not get relegated around then? Would make sense if so. Hardly an unwanted player or a failure if he found another three clubs after that. Happens all the time. Does being released make a player a failure now? 

[Shodwall cat]

3 minutes ago, Bairn Necessities said:

Didn't really surprise me Craigen did OK elsewhere. I thought he was no bad. Bit slow though. 

Can't be looking back though. Let's spend the next couple of months identifying who needs to get to f**k in January or the summer. We're fucked for promotion this season. 

January will be struggle to get rid of anyone . Cant see anybody wanting the current crew if they dont improve.   The likes of Craigen, Kerr, Miller  and Austin had previous experience up here and were always going to be worth a punt for other clubs.  Cant see anyone looking at the likes of TOE ,Brough or Dallison if they dont work out. We just need to pray things miraculously turn or I'd say the season is pretty much fecked. 

[Shodwall cat]

Just now, DeeBairn said:

Longridge played 8 games as a teenager. Either his contract was expiring and Ayr didn't want him, or they let him go to save money. Did they not get relegated around then? Would make sense if so. Hardly an unwanted player or a failure if he found another three clubs after that. Happens all the time. Does being released make a player a failure now? 

As I said how Livi are run and whether their budget is being funded dubiously isn't the point I was originally trying to make. I was pointing out how good a job Hopkin has done on a small budget much lower than ours and how having the right manager in place means anythings possible.  Off the park they certainly have a chequered past but last season Hopkin and Livi certainly showed how things can be done on the park and thats where we need to take lessons from.  Make the most of what you have something we certainly didnt do when coming 8th with the second biggest budget. 

[Bairnardo]

January will be struggle to get rid of anyone . Cant see anybody wanting the current crew if they dont improve.   The likes of Craigen, Kerr, Miller  and Austin had previous experience up here and were always going to be worth a punt for other clubs.  Cant see anyone looking at the likes of TOE ,Brough or Dallison if they dont work out. We just need to pray things miraculously turn or I'd say the season is pretty much fecked. 

Where has this patter evolved from that we need a fucking miracle ffs?

I realise I am going over old ground again and I dont have an issue with folk airing their views but at least try to get some perspective.

Fucking hell. Already talking about punting folk in January.

And no, I dont give a f**k about the league cup before anyone starts.

Its been 2 fucking league games. 2 (two)

Have we been poor? Aye, we have. Very much so in both first 45s. Did the team show better after half time in both games. Aye, they did.

Folk using some amount of hyperbole on here the now. Get some degree of proportion into the debate here, and give Hartley and these young laddies like TOE, Sammut etc and chance to get their foot in the door before you are trying to boot them out it fucking hell.

This is on top of romanticising about the time we had James fucking Craigen.

Am away to get my blood pressure checked.

[Shodwall cat]

4 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Where has this patter evolved from that we need a fucking miracle ffs?

I realise I am going over old ground again and I dont have an issue with folk airing their views but at least try to get some perspective.

Fucking hell. Already talking about punting folk in January.

And no, I dont give a f**k about the league cup before anyone starts.

Its been 2 fucking league games. 2 (two)

Have we been poor? Aye, we have. Very much so in both first 45s. Did the team show better after half time in both games. Aye, they did.

Folk using some amount of hyperbole on here the now. Get some degree of proportion into the debate here, and give Hartley and these young laddies like TOE, Sammut etc and chance to get their foot in the door before you are trying to boot them out it fucking hell.

This is on top of romanticising about the time we had James fucking Craigen.

Am away to get my blood pressure checked.

Your right time will tell . Hopefully we'll win tomorrow and look like a team for a change. I just don't see enough in these guys to have us challenging come April.  I hope I'm wrong and tomorrow is the start of a long unbeaten run. If we could at least play our strongest 11 with everyone playing in their favoured position then at least we would know what we've been landed with .