sophia Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 1 hour ago, FreedomFarter said: I don't know the history of these PFI deals well enough to confidently apportion blame. From my limited "research" (ie. googling), I think most of the deals, the worst ones at least, were done pre-Holyrood by Blair's Labour. Salmond definitely spoke out against them but I don't know what he did in terms of actions. Someone else can hopefully comment who has a proper understanding. They were set up by spivs for spivs and supported by the likes of McConnell. It was a thoroughly dispiriting time to have an administration that didn't act as devolved because they didn't want to be devolved. To call out their own would've been existentially problematic so we got what the CEO wanted and whatever the line managers really thought we'll never know. It's such a shame that Salmond Salmonded and his good early work is lost to vintage memory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 On 26/08/2023 at 18:54, FreedomFarter said: I don't know the history of these PFI deals well enough to confidently apportion blame. From my limited "research" (ie. googling), I think most of the deals, the worst ones at least, were done pre-Holyrood by Blair's Labour. Salmond definitely spoke out against them but I don't know what he did in terms of actions. Someone else can hopefully comment who has a proper understanding. I remember hearing years ago that some of the PFI deals were like paying a mortgage for twenty-five years, totalling vastly more than the "price", but not owning the property at the end of it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 28, 2023 Author Share Posted August 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said: I remember hearing years ago that some of the PFI deals were like paying a mortgage for twenty-five years, totalling vastly more than the "price", but not owning the property at the end of it. I remember that description too and thinking any individual entering into a financial arrangement like that would have to be incredibly stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 8 hours ago, Granny Danger said: I remember that description too and thinking any individual entering into a financial arrangement like that would have to be incredibly stupid. Not stupid, just venal. Politicians who wanted good publicity for cutting the ribbon on new buildings, while also lining the pockets of influential friends in industry and giving absolutely zero shits about what would happen when they were out of office and unaccountable. So, the same old story with shiny new Third Way packaging. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 8 hours ago, Granny Danger said: I remember that description too and thinking any individual entering into a booth to vote for them again financial arrangement like that would have to be incredibly stupid. ftfy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 9 hours ago, Granny Danger said: I remember that description too and thinking any individual entering into a financial arrangement like that would have to be incredibly stupid. Not if you were the individual or corporation who was sucking on the PFI teat. The whole cynical point of PFI was to shuffle costs off the public finances, and whilst it did that in the first instance it kicked the problem down the road by which time the architects would have moved on to their international sinecures. That was bad enough, but the quality of the 'products' that emerged from PFI was invariably shit, the tab for which will be picked up by Joe Public. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 29, 2023 Author Share Posted August 29, 2023 50 minutes ago, BTFD said: Not stupid, just venal. Politicians who wanted good publicity for cutting the ribbon on new buildings, while also lining the pockets of influential friends in industry and giving absolutely zero shits about what would happen when they were out of office and unaccountable. So, the same old story with shiny new Third Way packaging. 7 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: Not if you were the individual or corporation who was sucking on the PFI teat. The whole cynical point of PFI was to shuffle costs off the public finances, and whilst it did that in the first instance it kicked the problem down the road by which time the architects would have moved on to their international sinecures. That was bad enough, but the quality of the 'products' that emerged from PFI was invariably shit, the tab for which will be picked up by Joe Public. Either you’re not reading my post correctly or I’m not explaining myself. My point in the analogy to buying a house is no individual would agree to pay a mortgage for 25 years in the knowledge they would not own the house at the end. Duh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 8 hours ago, Granny Danger said: Either you’re not reading my post correctly or I’m not explaining myself. My point in the analogy to buying a house is no individual would agree to pay a mortgage for 25 years in the knowledge they would not own the house at the end. Duh. Your explanation was fine Granny but you overlooked an embedded and enduring aspect known simply as political expediency, in which normal rules don't apply. I've never known a house-buying individual whose actions were based on how it would play with the electorate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soapy FFC Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 Two news items today that seems to fit together https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/eu-unveils-package-laws-curb-power-big-tech-giants https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/06/cars-collect-extensive-personal-data-on-drivers-study-warns Whilst we all know and accept, although probably unwillingly is many instances, the fact that your phone collects a lot of data on you, I doubt very many people though that their car would be doing the same. It really is the time for Govt to stamp out this data mining by all companies, and to finally get on the side of the consumer when it comes to privacy and what data companies collect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbitterandgrumpy Posted September 6, 2023 Share Posted September 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Soapy FFC said: Two news items today that seems to fit together https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/eu-unveils-package-laws-curb-power-big-tech-giants https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/sep/06/cars-collect-extensive-personal-data-on-drivers-study-warns Whilst we all know and accept, although probably unwillingly is many instances, the fact that your phone collects a lot of data on you, I doubt very many people though that their car would be doing the same. It really is the time for Govt to stamp out this data mining by all companies, and to finally get on the side of the consumer when it comes to privacy and what data companies collect. Good luck with that, whatever Party is in power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 I'm really in a quandary here. Who to choose... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 9 hours ago, jakedee said: I'm really in a quandary here. Who to choose... Is his nickname Juan? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 Christ, the Tories are still copypasting the exact same ONLY WE CAN WIN HERE templates that Ruth Davidson knocked up a decade ago. Literally just the name and figures changed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 I watched a 9/11 documentary on iplayer earlier - Inside The President's Bunker, or a similar title. Interviews with Bush and all his advisors and the senior people involved in it at the time. There was something quite sobering that, twenty years later, George Bush was more articulate, more intelligent and more compassionate than their recent presidential efforts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 (edited) On 08/09/2023 at 16:09, jakedee said: I'm really in a quandary here. Who to choose... Beginning to see a pattern.. Incidentally in the local elections they're referring to the Lib Dems came 3rd to Independents in 2nd. Edited September 9, 2023 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 2 hours ago, BTFD said: Christ, the Tories are still copypasting the exact same ONLY WE CAN WIN HERE templates that Ruth Davidson knocked up a decade ago. Literally just the name and figures changed. We get “only the Tories can beat the SNP here” sent to us, despite the fact that I live in Edinburgh West, a fairly safe Lib Dem seat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: We get “only the Tories can beat the SNP here” sent to us, despite the fact that I live in Edinburgh West, a fairly safe Lib Dem seat. Well that's essentially true given the nature of West Edinburgh Lib Dems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said: Well that's essentially true given the nature of West Edinburgh Lib Dems. Fair point. Im surrounded by c***s 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 A fucking classic in the genre of ‘saying the quiet bit loud’ These people are absolute vermin, and I would dance on their graves. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbitterandgrumpy Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 36 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: A fucking classic in the genre of ‘saying the quiet bit loud’ These people are absolute vermin, and I would dance on their graves. Ah, the Thatcher years. I’d really prefer not to live through them again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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