New clubs in the East of Scotland

[stulch]

And going south, following my club for 36 seasons, at that point, dreaming of just getting to an FA Cup final, and then winning the Premier League. Try topping that...

[FairWeatherFan]

See the forum's been promoted

[heedthebaa]

22 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

See the forum's been promoted

Well played @HibeeJibee

[Robert James]

1 hour ago, SimonLichtie said:

Can't help but be amused by seeing multiple junior fans on Twitter going on about how the cup final last week with last minute winner and the west super league title being decided on the last day show what you get in the juniors, unrivaled anywhere else, the clubs moving senior will lose this etc etc....

In League 1, Raith Rovers hit the post in the last minute and ultimately ended up losing the title to Ayr after drawing at home while Ayr won, after the title had swung back in their favour the previous week from an Ayr loss.

In League 2, Montrose managed to win the title on the last day despite going behind at home, and Peterhead winning 9 of their last 10 games.

In the Lowland League, Spartans won it on the last day despite only drawing, as East Kilbride surprisingly lost their last game 2-0 away to Stirling Uni.

In the East of Scotland, a sensational finish was set up after LTHV managed to go on a superb run and win all bar one of their ridiculously tight schedule in the last few weeks setting up a dramatic last day game between the top 2, infront of a superb crowd of 1400.

When talking about the last day decider yesterday which Talbot fucked and the cup final the previous week, our favourite Twitter comedian (we all know which account I'm talking about here.....) said the following:

'Join this mess of a pyramid and you lose this, the drama the passion that real proper winning feeling of achievement and being the best in a grade of football that has produced so much of this over the decades!'

It's a real shame that despite winning leagues, fans of Ayr, Montrose, Spartans and Kelty didn't get a proper winning feeling or any sense of achievement......   

 

Sorry to mention it on a Scottish forum, but the drama of Geoff Hurst's unique hattrick in 1966, at the end of extra time, was accompanied by Ken Wolstenholme's epic : 

"there are some people on the pitch, they thinks its all over.........it is now !"

For some strange reason, this quote seems to be very apt now.

Thanks Ken.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Robert James

[Kelheart]

Thanks EOS for a great season and wish all the new teams all the best in push for LL 

[Ginaro]

3 hours ago, SimonLichtie said:

Can't help but be amused by seeing multiple junior fans on Twitter going on about how the cup final last week with last minute winner and the west super league title being decided on the last day show what you get in the juniors, unrivaled anywhere else, the clubs moving senior will lose this etc etc....

Also the South Challenge Cup, (the non-league cup for those in the pyramid) was won by Civil Service Strollers with an overhead kick in extra time.

[ShrimpLok]

2 hours ago, heedthebaa said:

Well played @HibeeJibee

Sensible move as better reflects the structure and the links between Lowland League and EoS / SoS. Good suggestion.

[Marten]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Also the South Challenge Cup, (the non-league cup for those in the pyramid) was won by Civil Service Strollers with an overhead kick in extra time.

That was great to see. I was just behind that goal (just off-camera) and I had a perfect view of it. That's the proper kind of last minute drama I love in football. Especially as a neutral that game was a treat!

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I await a strong backlash from moon howlers like that junior twitter guy against P&B for no doubt in his mind disrespecting the grade.

From what I’ve been hearing it’d be prudent to create a WOSL one soon too

[Pyramidic]

Over the moon with the restructuring of the EoSL.
 

I would suggest that the 3 Conferences (13 teams in each) are formed by first establishing 13 pools each with 3 teams based on current league positions.  This seeding will give us the following:

Pool 1
Hawick Royal Albert, Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale, Preston Athletic

Pool 2
Leith Athletic, Tynecastle, Heriot-Watt University

Pool 3
Peebles Rovers, Burntisland Shipyard, University of Stirling reserves

Pool 4
Coldstream, Eyemouth United, Ormiston

Pool 5
Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

Pool 6
Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic, Linlithgow Rose, Penicuik Athletic

Pool 7
Dundonald Bluebell, Broxburn Athletic, Hill of Beath Hawthorn

Pool 8
Bo'ness United, Camelon Juniors, Newtongrange Star

Pool 9
Sauchie Juniors, Jeanfield Swifts, Musselburgh Athletic

Pool 10
Haddington Athletic, Blackburn United, Dunbar United

Pool 11
Tranent Juniors, St Andrews United, Arniston Rangers

Pool 12
Dalkeith Thistle, Edinburgh United, Oakley United

Pool 13
Crossgates Primrose, Craigroyston, Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare

A draw should then be made in front of the member clubs to determine which teams from Pool 1 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C; which teams from Pool 2 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C etc. etc. This process will enable the constitution of each conference to be fairly determined by a draw while at the same time using realistic seeding. (Pool 5 - Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts - is the difficult one to seed and basically incorporates those teams that are left over).


The provision of a 3 team Championship Play-off League at the end of the season is an awkward process but must be fairly addressed.

Again I would suggest a seeding process - with the Conference champions with the most points (or better goal difference) being seeded No. 1. The next best No. 2. The team with the lowest number of points being No.3

We will then have 6 matches (4 games for each team) in a mini-league (home and away)

1 v 3
3 v 2
2 v 1

3 v 1
2 v 3
1 v 2

If the seeding is correct then everything will depend on the last match 1 v 2 (with 1 having home advantage).

It is a bit messy but I cannot think of a fairer process. It will probably mean that the Championship Play-off League will take 3 weeks to complete. I suppose the other option would be to play a single round of games perhaps using neutral grounds.


The EoSL Championship winners will meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff to determine the promoted team.

The teams finishing 1 to 5 in each of the 3 Conferences will enter the EoSL Premier (Tier 6) in 2019/20 (with the probable exception of the Champions who will be replaced by the last placed team in the Lowland League).


There is then the issue of how to determine Club No.16 for the EoSL Premier in 2019/20.

It could be one of four:

1. The EoSL championship winners are not promoted as they lose the Lowland Promotion Playoff with the winners of the SoSL.

2. An additional club relegated from the Lowland League because of a relegated club from SPFL2; OR

3. Clydebank - if the WoSL is a non-starter; OR

4. The winners of a Promotion Playoff between the 3 teams finishing sixth in the 3 Conferences (similar format to the Championship Play-off League?) 


All the remaining teams in the 3 Conferences drop to Tier 7 in 2019/20 - possibly Division 1 North and Division 1 South.


It is a little more complicated than it first seems. Is my logic correct?

The weak area in my view is the delay created by a 3 week Championship Play-off League before the EoSL Championship winners can meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Pyramidic

[dwl123]

29 minutes ago, Pyramidic said:

Over the moon with the restructuring of the EoSL.
 

I would suggest that the 3 Conferences (13 teams in each) are formed by first establishing 13 pools each with 3 teams based on current league positions.  This seeding will give us the following:

Pool 1
Hawick Royal Albert, Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale, Preston Athletic

Pool 2
Leith Athletic, Tynecastle, Heriot-Watt University

Pool 3
Peebles Rovers, Burntisland Shipyard, University of Stirling reserves

Pool 4
Coldstream, Eyemouth United, Ormiston

Pool 5
Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

Pool 6
Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic, Linlithgow Rose, Penicuik Athletic

Pool 7
Dundonald Bluebell, Broxburn Athletic, Hill of Beath Hawthorn

Pool 8
Bo'ness United, Camelon Juniors, Newtongrange Star

Pool 9
Sauchie Juniors, Jeanfield Swifts, Musselburgh Athletic

Pool 10
Haddington Athletic, Blackburn United, Dunbar United

Pool 11
Tranent Juniors, St Andrews United, Arniston Rangers

Pool 12
Dalkeith Thistle, Edinburgh United, Oakley United

Pool 13
Crossgates Primrose, Craigroyston, Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare

A draw should then be made in front of the member clubs to determine which teams from Pool 1 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C; which teams from Pool 2 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C etc. etc. This process will enable the constitution of each conference to be fairly determined by a draw while at the same time using realistic seeding. (Pool 5 - Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts - is the difficult one to seed and basically incorporates those teams that are left over).


The provision of a 3 team Championship Play-off League at the end of the season is an awkward process but must be fairly addressed.

Again I would suggest a seeding process - with the Conference champions with the most points (or better goal difference) being seeded No. 1. The next best No. 2. The team with the lowest number of points being No.3

We will then have 6 matches (4 games for each team) in a mini-league (home and away)

1 v 3
3 v 2
2 v 1

3 v 1
2 v 3
1 v 2

If the seeding is correct then everything will depend on the last match 1 v 2 (with 1 having home advantage).

It is a bit messy but I cannot think of a fairer process. It will probably mean that the Championship Play-off League will take 3 weeks to complete. I suppose the other option would be to play a single round of games perhaps using neutral grounds.


The EoSL Championship winners will meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff to determine the promoted team.

The teams finishing 1 to 5 in each of the 3 Conferences will enter the EoSL Premier (Tier 6) in 2019/20 (with the probable exception of the Champions who will be replaced by the last placed team in the Lowland League).


There is then the issue of how to determine Club No.16 for the EoSL Premier in 2019/20.

It could be one of four:

1. The EoSL championship winners are not promoted as they lose the Lowland Promotion Playoff with the winners of the SoSL.

2. An additional club relegated from the Lowland League because of a relegated club from SPFL2; OR

3. Clydebank - if the WoSL is a non-starter; OR

4. The winners of a Promotion Playoff between the 3 teams finishing sixth in the 3 Conferences (similar format to the Championship Play-off League?) 


All the remaining teams in the 3 Conferences drop to Tier 7 in 2019/20 - possibly Division 1 North and Division 1 South.


It is a little more complicated than it first seems. Is my logic correct?

The weak area in my view is the delay created by a 3 week Championship Play-off League before the EoSL Championship winners can meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff.

All sounds very fair and logical but id advocate just 3 games intotal to decide the overall champion of the EOS league considering midweek games will probs be a non starter. Id also suggest that once the league structure is sorted for 19/20 (premier at T6, 2 equal leagues at T7) any new teams joining do so at T7, and i bet there will be a few!

 

[John S]

5 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

See the forum's been promoted

Always wondered why it was not in this section

 

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, SimonLichtie said:

Can't help but be amused by seeing multiple junior fans on Twitter going on about how the cup final last week with last minute winner and the west super league title being decided on the last day show what you get in the juniors, unrivaled anywhere else, the clubs moving senior will lose this etc etc....

...

It's a real shame that despite winning leagues, fans of Ayr, Montrose, Spartans and Kelty didn't get a proper winning feeling or any sense of achievement......   

 

You're absolutely right and any claims to greater excitement in the Juniors are clearly, clearly rubbish.

However, there were far more fans at the Junior Cup final that at any of the matches you mentioned, even to the top of L1, and that was a relatively low cup final attendance. And correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think the town of any of the winners of those matches would have seen an open-top bus tour, or any of the excitement that winning the Junior Cup brings. I've seen the Junior Cup come to Linlithgow three times and there's nothing remotely like it below winning the Scottish Challenge Cup. Open top bus, three times round the cross, party along the High Street all evening in front of shop windows all decorated for the game. Honestly, it's wonderful. 

I'll really, really miss the Junior Cup and the answer isn't to sneer about those who love it; the answer is surely to work to open it up to all non-league seniors too. 

1 hour ago, Pyramidic said:

Over the moon with the restructuring of the EoSL.
 

I would suggest that the 3 Conferences (13 teams in each) are formed by first establishing 13 pools each with 3 teams based on current league positions.  This seeding will give us the following:

Pool 1
Hawick Royal Albert, Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale, Preston Athletic

Pool 2
Leith Athletic, Tynecastle, Heriot-Watt University

Pool 3
Peebles Rovers, Burntisland Shipyard, University of Stirling reserves

Pool 4
Coldstream, Eyemouth United, Ormiston

Pool 5
Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

Pool 6
Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic, Linlithgow Rose, Penicuik Athletic

Pool 7
Dundonald Bluebell, Broxburn Athletic, Hill of Beath Hawthorn

Pool 8
Bo'ness United, Camelon Juniors, Newtongrange Star

Pool 9
Sauchie Juniors, Jeanfield Swifts, Musselburgh Athletic

Pool 10
Haddington Athletic, Blackburn United, Dunbar United

Pool 11
Tranent Juniors, St Andrews United, Arniston Rangers

Pool 12
Dalkeith Thistle, Edinburgh United, Oakley United

Pool 13
Crossgates Primrose, Craigroyston, Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare
 

I would do this or something similar too, with pots effectively like seeding, but then rather than a draw I would place them by geography. That way you still get a completely balanced draw, but you also maximise derbies and minimise travel.

Just a suggestion and, presuming tomorrow goes well for us, I'll thankfully take what we're given.

[cmontheloknow]

20 hours ago, Marten said:

They'd have to get approval from UEFA, but generally for non-league clubs that are isolated in their own country and right on the border with another country, that permission is being granted. Some examples:

• SV Kleinwalsertal (Austria) play in German tier 10, they are isolated within Austria and this is easier from a travel perspective
• FC Büsingen (Germany) play in Swiss tier 7, they are based in a German enclave fully surrounded by Swiss territory
• AP Campionese (Italy) play in Swiss tier 7, they are based in a Italian enclave fully surrounded by Swiss territory
• UE Bossòst (Spain) play in French tier 10, they are isolated within Spain and this is easier from a travel perspective

All of these are members of the FA in the country they play in and have been approved by UEFA as such. As there is a precedent, and north Northumberland isn't exactly a hotbed of football outside of Berwick, I doubt they'd have any issues with Tweedmouth joining the SFA.

Thanks for such an educational post Marten! Just looking at these places on Google Earth, I think Campionese must be running Fort William close for most spectacular ground anywhere! Fort William looks at mountains, whereas the one in Campione d'Italia is ON a mountain and has a spectacular view downwards across Lake Lugano!

https://ap-campionese-official-web-site.webnode.it/stadio-sciree/

[Marten]

1 hour ago, Pyramidic said:

Over the moon with the restructuring of the EoSL.
 

I would suggest that the 3 Conferences (13 teams in each) are formed by first establishing 13 pools each with 3 teams based on current league positions.  This seeding will give us the following:

Pool 1
Hawick Royal Albert, Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale, Preston Athletic

Pool 2
Leith Athletic, Tynecastle, Heriot-Watt University

Pool 3
Peebles Rovers, Burntisland Shipyard, University of Stirling reserves

Pool 4
Coldstream, Eyemouth United, Ormiston

Pool 5
Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts

Pool 6
Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic, Linlithgow Rose, Penicuik Athletic

Pool 7
Dundonald Bluebell, Broxburn Athletic, Hill of Beath Hawthorn

Pool 8
Bo'ness United, Camelon Juniors, Newtongrange Star

Pool 9
Sauchie Juniors, Jeanfield Swifts, Musselburgh Athletic

Pool 10
Haddington Athletic, Blackburn United, Dunbar United

Pool 11
Tranent Juniors, St Andrews United, Arniston Rangers

Pool 12
Dalkeith Thistle, Edinburgh United, Oakley United

Pool 13
Crossgates Primrose, Craigroyston, Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare

A draw should then be made in front of the member clubs to determine which teams from Pool 1 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C; which teams from Pool 2 go in Conference A, Conference B and Conference C etc. etc. This process will enable the constitution of each conference to be fairly determined by a draw while at the same time using realistic seeding. (Pool 5 - Tweedmouth Rangers, Dunipace Juniors, Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts - is the difficult one to seed and basically incorporates those teams that are left over).


The provision of a 3 team Championship Play-off League at the end of the season is an awkward process but must be fairly addressed.

Again I would suggest a seeding process - with the Conference champions with the most points (or better goal difference) being seeded No. 1. The next best No. 2. The team with the lowest number of points being No.3

We will then have 6 matches (4 games for each team) in a mini-league (home and away)

1 v 3
3 v 2
2 v 1

3 v 1
2 v 3
1 v 2

If the seeding is correct then everything will depend on the last match 1 v 2 (with 1 having home advantage).

It is a bit messy but I cannot think of a fairer process. It will probably mean that the Championship Play-off League will take 3 weeks to complete. I suppose the other option would be to play a single round of games perhaps using neutral grounds.


The EoSL Championship winners will meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff to determine the promoted team.

The teams finishing 1 to 5 in each of the 3 Conferences will enter the EoSL Premier (Tier 6) in 2019/20 (with the probable exception of the Champions who will be replaced by the last placed team in the Lowland League).


There is then the issue of how to determine Club No.16 for the EoSL Premier in 2019/20.

It could be one of four:

1. The EoSL championship winners are not promoted as they lose the Lowland Promotion Playoff with the winners of the SoSL.

2. An additional club relegated from the Lowland League because of a relegated club from SPFL2; OR

3. Clydebank - if the WoSL is a non-starter; OR

4. The winners of a Promotion Playoff between the 3 teams finishing sixth in the 3 Conferences (similar format to the Championship Play-off League?) 


All the remaining teams in the 3 Conferences drop to Tier 7 in 2019/20 - possibly Division 1 North and Division 1 South.


It is a little more complicated than it first seems. Is my logic correct?

The weak area in my view is the delay created by a 3 week Championship Play-off League before the EoSL Championship winners can meet the winners of the SoSL in a 2 leg Lowland Promotion Playoff.

Sounds decent enough. Although maybe it's better to have a pot of "top seeds" consisting of LTHV, Bonnyrigg & Linlithgow (LTHV instead of Hawick based on last season). Then there are 12 remaining "EOS" teams and 24 newcomers, both numbers can be divided by 3.

The play-offs could be carried on across the league, so lower clubs play for classifications & qualification for next season's leagues. In that way each club is guaranteed 15 home games.

[Marten]

40 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I'll really, really miss the Junior Cup and the answer isn't to sneer about those who love it; the answer is surely to work to open it up to all non-league seniors too. 

I hope it does get opened up to all non-league seniors. But IMO the SFA should take some initiative if the SJFA doesn't let this happen. They could start a new competition, replacing the south/north region challenge cup (ok, the north one hasn't been played for a while, but still) and invite all junior sides, the North Caledonian League & possible top amateur sides on top of the clubs already eligible to join these cups. Then it's up to the remaining juniors whether or not they want to join.

Although the SJFA co-operating & opening up the Junior Cup to senior non-league sides would be much preferable imo.

[Marten]

14 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

Thanks for such an educational post Marten! Just looking at these places on Google Earth, I think Campionese must be running Fort William close for most spectacular ground anywhere! Fort William looks at mountains, whereas the one in Campione d'Italia is ON a mountain and has a spectacular view downwards across Lake Lugano!

https://ap-campionese-official-web-site.webnode.it/stadio-sciree/

That looks amazing! Straight on my groundhopping wish-list!

[Pyramidic]

8 minutes ago, Marten said:

Sounds decent enough. Although maybe it's better to have a pot of "top seeds" consisting of LTHV, Bonnyrigg & Linlithgow (LTHV instead of Hawick based on last season). Then there are 12 remaining "EOS" teams and 24 newcomers, both numbers can be divided by 3.

The play-offs could be carried on across the league, so lower clubs play for classifications & qualification for next season's leagues. In that way each club is guaranteed 15 home games.

These are good points. I suppose the problem of play-offs across the Conferences to determine positions and classifications are those clubs that build up a back-log of postponed fixtures.

[Marten]

1 minute ago, Pyramidic said:

These are good points. I suppose the problem of play-offs across the Conferences to determine positions and classifications are those clubs that build up a back-log of postponed fixtures.

Fair enough, but I don't think it would be too hard to plan if you reserve time in the fixture list from the start, especially as clubs have free weekends to plan in at the end in which some cup games can be fitted in.

[GordonS]

27 minutes ago, Marten said:

I hope it does get opened up to all non-league seniors. But IMO the SFA should take some initiative if the SJFA doesn't let this happen. They could start a new competition, replacing the south/north region challenge cup (ok, the north one hasn't been played for a while, but still) and invite all junior sides, the North Caledonian League & possible top amateur sides on top of the clubs already eligible to join these cups. Then it's up to the remaining juniors whether or not they want to join.

Although the SJFA co-operating & opening up the Junior Cup to senior non-league sides would be much preferable imo.

Agreed.