Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Bairnardo]

As someone who works for a big corporation, and having recently moved from another, I can quite confidently say that WFH is here to stay. I’ll be in the office about once a month when things are fully back to normal. In the old place, they insisted on 60% of the time in the office, but quickly backed out of that as the staff said no. The cat is out of the bag, Mon-Fri 9-5 with a daily commute is dead. 

Theres going to be loads of folk who dont get what they want tbh. The Monday to Friday is dead for you, but the office workers at my work have been consistently hunted back to the office every time a looseing has allowed it.

And as one of the better payers in the area, no one is going to leave.

Anyway, it really doesnt and will probably never affect me, just to say that the good old fashioned lack of trust and "our employees are out to fleece us" attitude remains alive and well.

[Monkey Tennis]

A question for the recently Covid riddled:

Have you been able to end isolation early by getting negative LFTs after 5 or 6 days?   I've had to do the full 10 days because results have remained positive.   Anecdotally, that sounds fairly typical.   It's a bit of a scunner, as I'd kind of assumed I'd get to escape a bit early. 

[die hard doonhamer]

2 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Theres going to be loads of folk who dont get what they want tbh. The Monday to Friday is dead for you, but the office workers at my work have been consistently hunted back to the office every time a looseing has allowed it.

And as one of the better payers in the area, no one is going to leave.

Anyway, it really doesnt and will probably never affect me, just to say that the good old fashioned lack of trust and "our employees are out to fleece us" attitude remains alive and well.

The thing is, for the big employers it means there are now more options. The company I now work for would not have been an option for me pre-covid. I used to work for a company with an office local to me. Now, my nearest office is Glasgow, but I’m the only person in my team based in Scotland, so I’ll never be in that office.

 Being the best payer in a geographical region is no longer the advantage it once was, as the best workers can now go and seek a London wage without the increase in living costs that used to come with it.

I understand it isn’t the case for everyone, but for the majority of those based in an office, there are now more options. And as people take up those options, the employers still insisting on everyone being in the office will start to feel the pinch. 

[Bairnardo]

The thing is, for the big employers it means there are now more options. The company I now work for would not have been an option for me pre-covid. I used to work for a company with an office local to me. Now, my nearest office is Glasgow, but I’m the only person in my team based in Scotland, so I’ll never be in that office.
 Being the best payer in a geographical region is no longer the advantage it once was, as the best workers can now go and seek a London wage without the increase in living costs that used to come with it.
I understand it isn’t the case for everyone, but for the majority of those based in an office, there are now more options. And as people take up those options, the employers still insisting on everyone being in the office will start to feel the pinch. 

Theres not just going to be a one way shift though. There might well be a big churn in the way office types work as there will be many who shift jobs because they dont want to be forced to work from home.

I dunno, wer not out the pandemic and free from bullshit restrictions yet, we wont know how things are going to play out until we reach that point.

Big part of me doesn't buy the idea of wholesale changes for the better for the likes of us. There will likely be a sting in the tail and in the end, I think the ones who actually get what THEY want, will be the small minority who are in quality jobs, trusted by their management.

[Scary Bear]

13 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I’ve read about “disability prejudice” and attacks on people with disabilities recently. What the f**k. Who does that?

Bet it’s those fucking Tik Tok people.

[Todd_is_God]

18 minutes ago, die hard doonhamer said:

the best workers can now go and seek a London wage without the increase in living costs that used to come with it.

I would be stunned if companies offered London weighted salaries to newly hired fully remote employees tbh.

The winners in that scenario will be those already employed who can now ditch their commute.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

25 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Theres not just going to be a one way shift though. There might well be a big churn in the way office types work as there will be many who shift jobs because they dont want to be forced to work from home.

I dunno, wer not out the pandemic and free from bullshit restrictions yet, we wont know how things are going to play out until we reach that point.

Big part of me doesn't buy the idea of wholesale changes for the better for the likes of us. There will likely be a sting in the tail and in the end, I think the ones who actually get what THEY want, will be the small minority who are in quality jobs, trusted by their management.

WFH will be given to eployees when it suits the employer to do so, return to office will be required when it suits the employer to do so.  Only in situations where the employee is of high value and demand will their needs come before the employers wishes

As Todd says , the big winners from this will be people who are already settled in a good job who don't need to commute, probably have a home office set up and are experienced in enough in their roll that they don't rely on others for help or mentoring. Outsourcing could very easily happen, a huge number of people in the developing world speak English as their FIRST language and an even bigger number speak it fluently as their second. why would they pay someone expensive UK wages, pensions contributions, sick pay , redundancy terms etc when they could have someone abroad for less with none of the strings attached? unless of course they need them to be there in person

we've already seen technical support get outsourced in the form of call centres, who says you can't do the same with HR , payroll, accounting , admin etc

Edited January 29, 2022 by effeffsee_the2nd

[The Moonster]

39 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

A question for the recently Covid riddled:

Have you been able to end isolation early by getting negative LFTs after 5 or 6 days?   I've had to do the full 10 days because results have remained positive.   Anecdotally, that sounds fairly typical.   It's a bit of a scunner, as I'd kind of assumed I'd get to escape a bit early. 

I was showing clear on tests after 5 days, my girlfriend and my dad were both positive for the full 10 days. 

[Bairnardo]

WFH will be given to eployees when it suits the employer to do so, return to office will be required when it suits the employer to do so.  Only in situations where the employee is of high value and demand will their needs come before the employers wishes
As Todd says , the big winners from this will be people who are already settled in a good job who don't need to commute, probably have a home office set up and are experienced in enough in their roll that they don't rely on others for help or mentoring. Outsourcing could very easily happen, a huge number of people in the developing world speak English as their FIRST language and an even bigger number speak it fluently as their second. why would they pay someone expensive UK wages, pensions contributions, sick pay , redundancy terms etc when they could have someone abroad for less with none of the strings attached? unless of course they need them to be there in person
we've already seen technical support get outsourced in the form of call centres, who says you can't do the same with HR , payroll, accounting , admin etc

Thats sort of the flavour I get from it all tbh.

As I have said, it doesnt really affect me, but I feel a heavy sense of wanting to tell folk to watch themselves and be careful what they wish for/concede in pursuit of WFH.

These are traditionally non unionised workfaces that are front and centre in this particular conversation. I just think everyone ought to proceed carefully is all. Theres a lot of potential for the WFH experience going forward to represent something entirely different to the last two years with expectations/requirements being somewhat different on account of the pandemic.

Anyway, ultimately I just hope no one gets shafted. History tells us thats a fantasy though

[Wee Bully]

42 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

WFH will be given to eployees when it suits the employer to do so, return to office will be required when it suits the employer to do so.  Only in situations where the employee is of high value and demand will their needs come before the employers wishes

As Todd says , the big winners from this will be people who are already settled in a good job who don't need to commute, probably have a home office set up and are experienced in enough in their roll that they don't rely on others for help or mentoring. Outsourcing could very easily happen, a huge number of people in the developing world speak English as their FIRST language and an even bigger number speak it fluently as their second. why would they pay someone expensive UK wages, pensions contributions, sick pay , redundancy terms etc when they could have someone abroad for less with none of the strings attached? unless of course they need them to be there in person

we've already seen technical support get outsourced in the form of call centres, who says you can't do the same with HR , payroll, accounting , admin etc

For most office roles, the answer will be a hybrid.

It’s really difficult to train new staff remotely, especially school leavers / grads.  Equally, there are tasks that WFH is perfect for, and others which are so much better done in one place.  I found doing any strategy work remotely was really difficult for instance.

Being back in the office a lot more now, I’ve found myself a lot more productive on the days I’m in the office, but also a lot more productive the days I’m not - i think for me the mixing it up works.  I’m planning to be in 3 days a fortnight as those 3 days are down south.

[Thorongil]

Increased working from home was the direction of travel before the pandemic. It’s a normal development given the technical infrastructure we now have. 

Office based working will never be what it was like before the pandemic for several reasons.

1. Employers who froze recruitment during the pandemic were too slow to reverse this and were hit by record attrition once confidence returned to the candidate market. Then they have had to try to play catch-up simply to cover attrition. This has set a level of chaos in the jobs market that is going to take years to level out, if ever. 

2. Unemployment is low, employment is high.

3. Job opportunity volume is at a record high due to afore-said chaos. 

4. Many companies have had better financials with employees working from home.

5. Insurances have covered a lot of office rents and businesses see an opportunity to continue to save fixed costs. They can do business with a smaller office or no office but not with fewer people as most were lean enough already.

6. Individuals have reorganised their lives. 

7. There are going to be lots of employers offering permanent hybrid or home-working. This is a fact. 

8. Those who do not, will not be able to retain or recruit well in the foreseeable future and this places their existence at risk. 

9. Forcing people back to the office is a risk legally. Some will be willing to take it.

Sorry it doesn’t fit the ignorant, woe-is-me, look-how-socialist-I-am, amateur, half baked musings and mewlings, but sometimes things do change without “The Man” having complete control of the poor downtrodden worker ant.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Thorongil

[Elixir]

Give the weasels at the Scottish Government a piece of your mind here: https://consult.gov.scot/covid-19/covid-protection-measures/

[craigkillie]

Another minter for the Scottish Government.
 

They're not compulsory, so the obvious answer if you're concerned about it would be, well, not to wear it.

[Dawson Park Boy]

35 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Give the weasels at the Scottish Government a piece of your mind here: https://consult.gov.scot/covid-19/covid-protection-measures/

Just have.

Thanks.

[Clown Job]

Express train between Glasgow and Edinburgh is mobbed 

Vast majority still wearing masks, but no social distancing. Every seat taken

Good luck wearing your wee badge going forward 

[The Stig]

1 hour ago, Thorongil said:

9. Forcing people back to the office is a risk legally. Some will be willing to take it

Just curious to know.  Given a lot of people will not have their employment contract updated within the last two years to specifically mention WFH.  As this seems to be your area of expertise, why would employers take a risk legally asking people to come back into the office as I can't see any legal issue?

[Detournement]

On 27/01/2022 at 23:13, Lurkst said:

The needle and the damage done...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/26/spotify-neil-young-joe-rogan-covid-misinformation

 

Joni Mitchell as well now. 

The strange thing with Young is he felt strongly about the Iraq War but never decided to remove his music from any of the media companies promoting that. 

 

 

[Lurkst]

40 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The strange thing with Young is he felt strongly about the Iraq War but never decided to remove his music from any of the media companies promoting that.

He wasn't married to Daryl Hannah then.

 

[Thorongil]

53 minutes ago, The Stig said:

Just curious to know.  Given a lot of people will not have their employment contract updated within the last two years to specifically mention WFH.  As this seems to be your area of expertise, why would employers take a risk legally asking people to come back into the office as I can't see any legal issue?

It’s a cause and effect thing. Company instructs all staff back to the office. Large proportion of employees submit flexible working requests. Company declines these. Company is left legally exposed. 

Declining even one flexible working request is risky nowadays. You would also be looking at huge internal strife, and knock on legal pursuits over stress etc.

Organisation can be in effect crippled by poor employee relations, reputation ruined in the employment market and facing untold fines and compo claims effectively killing the company.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Thorongil

[craigkillie]

The constant exposure of Amazon's horrible working practices have killed them off as a company right enough.