Lucy Letby guilty

[RH33]

1 minute ago, Busta Nut said:

I know it isnae popular but I'd honestly let people kick her to death.

She'll be dead within six months by suicide.

[Ross.]

2 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

I know it isnae popular but I'd honestly let people kick her to death.

Exclusionary to people who can’t use their legs. You’re not very nice.

[Busta Nut]

Just now, Ross. said:

Exclusionary to people who can’t use their legs. You’re not very nice.

Assuming they have a mobility device they can use that.

[Wee Bully]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk

Interesting (and very similar) case from the Netherlands which was overturned some years later.  Use of statistics on when the nurse was on shift and comments in her diary.  

Of course, if some people had their way, that nurse would have been kicked to death / starved to death / otherwise killed.  

[Busta Nut]

Quote

Her conviction was controversial in the media and among scientists

Aye sounds similar.

[MEADOWXI]

3 hours ago, scottsdad said:

This issue has raised a lot of hackles. 

In truth I don't see this happening. All it takes is one convict forced to face a family, and then shouting/swearing/gloating for this all to backfire.

More disheartening political bollocks, the laws already exist, judges choose not to use them for exactly the reason you have highlighted, and the practicalities of needing 6 court officials / G4S staff to carry someone from the cells to the court. They will end up with the judges verdicts being broadcast on monitor to cell, with possibility of cell being filmed also at most.

It arsehole politicians grandstanding to the current trending issue.

I'm now just waiting for the Trust statements of full enquiry and lessons will be learned, as per every scandal, child murder/neglect/abuse enquiry that has happened in the last 20+ years, without a bloody thing getting better or fixed.

[Sergeant Wilson]

33 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk

Interesting (and very similar) case from the Netherlands which was overturned some years later.  Use of statistics on when the nurse was on shift and comments in her diary.  

Of course, if some people had their way, that nurse would have been kicked to death / starved to death / otherwise killed.  

Foreign kangaroo court. Wouldn't happen here.

[Boo Khaki]

Call me cynical, but I don't think it's remotely coincidental that Man U have just announced that Mason Greenwood is being mutually consented. Talk about a good day to bury bad news.

[Salt n Vinegar]

Give it a few days and there'll be some kind of social media campaign by a few folk claiming that her conviction was a government or medical industry conspiracy. Some sad loner will then want to marry her in prison.

[stimpy]

So did something happen to Letby while working as a nurse that gave her a God complex and led to the killings or did she always have something going on and chose to be a nurse from a young age to gain access to vulnerable children? 

[sparky88]

2 hours ago, RH33 said:

She'll be dead within six months by suicide.

Hopefully towards the end of that period #deadpool2024

Edited August 21, 2023 by sparky88

[throbber]

2 hours ago, RH33 said:

She'll be dead within six months by suicide.

They make it particularly difficult for you to commit suicide in jail. Unless you are Jeffery Epstein of course.

Can anyone tell me when she was allowed to not show up today?

[btb]

1 hour ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Give it a few days and there'll be some kind of social media campaign by a few folk claiming that her conviction was a government or medical industry conspiracy. Some sad loner will then want to marry her in prison.

The most likely candidate would be @virginton.

[Boo Khaki]

27 minutes ago, stimpy said:

So did something happen to Letby while working as a nurse that gave her a God complex and led to the killings or did she always have something going on and chose to be a nurse from a young age to gain access to vulnerable children? 

Reading between the lines, there is a lot about her parents behaviour, her friendship group, and her social interactions that suggest she had a bit of an 'odd' childhood and upbringing. A few things that suggest she was a bit cossetted, didn't really have the interests typical of a young woman in her profession, and possibly doesn't really perceive other people in the way that most do. She reminds me of someone I used to know who had no idea how to interact with other people appropriately, their perception of self was really strange and disordered, couldn't regulate their own emotions, and when things went wrong for them they went running to Maw despite being a fully grown adult.

Her pals seem to regard her as a perfectly nice, normal, shy, 'nerdy' lassie, but psychopathy in women doesn't always present as them being really abrasive, gregarious, or outgoing, so her pals might well have no insight into just how disordered her personality is, and calculating psychopaths are often perfectly capable of presenting an outward persona that doesn't show any signs of the troublesome part of their personality anyway. Some do, some don't, there's no hard and fast rule. The intelligent ones are often perfectly charming and endearing. They can 'mask' to fit in and learn what's acceptable and what isn't, even though they don't necessarily share the same moral code as most people that regulates interpersonal behaviour. Psychopaths often have their own, unique to them and very strong sense of 'justice', even though it can be completely arbitrary and not necessarily in line with typical views. This is why I think there's an aspect to Letby that probably meant she made early judgements about people, and decided whether they were 'acceptable' or not. This is just my personal thought about her, but I think she probably decided 'yes' or 'no' about her patients and their families early on, and if you were acceptable to her you were lucky, and she'd treat you appropriately the way any conscientious nurse would, but if she decided you were not... This is why I think she made several attempts on certain babies but ignored others, even though the repeated attempts made it more and more likely she'd be discovered. 

NPD often indulge in thrill-seeking and will contrive situations that give them a buzz, even when it's illegal or causes harm to others, but like psychopaths, they don't suddenly become narcissists in their mid-20's because of a one-off event. These things are invariably down to childhood trauma and abuse/neglect, so it's possible the attainment of her nursing qualifications is what enabled her to actually act out her abusive behaviours for the first detectable time, even though the root of it is her childhood and upbringing. She's probably never been abusive to her friends, perhaps because she recognised that it wouldn't be tolerated, she'd lose her friendship group, or that she was just so beaten down by overbearing parents that it had never occurred to her to be offensive to other adults, but helpless infants can't grass you up, hit you, tell you to f**k off, or report you to someone who can stand up to you, and some of the things she said to the parents, contextually, are deeply sinister and nasty. She's the nurse, she's the authority figure and the person with the power. Try that in a peer group where you don't carry the 'boss' tag and you'll get a smack in the mouth at best. Most psychopaths have a diminished sense of fear and consequence, but most of them are not complete idiots and can judge when they can indulge their behaviours and when they can't. There's a reason men who are incandescent with family members and will beat the shit out of their partners don't necessarily act the same way in a work environment, even when faced with far greater and completely genuine 'provocation'. They can still rationalise that the consequences are just too severe to get away with ignoring impulse, but it does sometimes boil over anyway. The person I mentioned up thread was prone to this, although the big difference I can see between this person and Letby is Letby appears to be of at least average, or above average intelligence, whereas my psychopath/narcissist acquaintance was also a bit thick.

If they do eventually get to the bottom of what is going on in her head, I think it will not be a singular diagnosis, because there isn't a single one that adequately explains all of her behaviours, but multiple personality disorder/disorders is perfectly possible, and that can come along with other diagnosable mental illness/illnesses on top. She could be a whole melting pot of of conditions, and I think that's the most likely scenario. 

[SweeperDee]

12 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Reading between the lines, there is a lot about her parents behaviour, her friendship group, and her social interactions that suggest she had a bit of an 'odd' childhood and upbringing. A few things that suggest she was a bit cossetted, didn't really have the interests typical of a young woman in her profession, and possibly doesn't really perceive other people in the way that most do. She reminds me of someone I used to know who had no idea how to interact with other people appropriately, their perception of self was really strange and disordered, couldn't regulate their own emotions, and when things went wrong for them they went running to Maw despite being a fully grown adult.

Her pals seem to regard her as a perfectly nice, normal, shy, 'nerdy' lassie, but psychopathy in women doesn't always present as them being really abrasive, gregarious, or outgoing, so her pals might well have no insight into just how disordered her personality is, and calculating psychopaths are often perfectly capable of presenting an outward persona that doesn't show any signs of the troublesome part of their personality anyway. Some do, some don't, there's no hard and fast rule. The intelligent ones are often perfectly charming and endearing. They can 'mask' to fit in and learn what's acceptable and what isn't, even though they don't necessarily share the same moral code as most people that regulates interpersonal behaviour. Psychopaths often have their own, unique to them and very strong sense of 'justice', even though it can be completely arbitrary and not necessarily in line with typical views. This is why I think there's an aspect to Letby that probably meant she made early judgements about people, and decided whether they were 'acceptable' or not. This is just my personal thought about her, but I think she probably decided 'yes' or 'no' about her patients and their families early on, and if you were acceptable to her you were lucky, and she'd treat you appropriately the way any conscientious nurse would, but if she decided you were not... This is why I think she made several attempts on certain babies but ignored others, even though the repeated attempts made it more and more likely she'd be discovered. 

NPD often indulge in thrill-seeking and will contrive situations that give them a buzz, even when it's illegal or causes harm to others, but like psychopaths, they don't suddenly become narcissists in their mid-20's because of a one-off event. These things are invariably down to childhood trauma and abuse/neglect, so it's possible the attainment of her nursing qualifications is what enabled her to actually act out her abusive behaviours for the first detectable time, even though the root of it is her childhood and upbringing. She's probably never been abusive to her friends, perhaps because she recognised that it wouldn't be tolerated, she'd lose her friendship group, or that she was just so beaten down by overbearing parents that it had never occurred to her to be offensive to other adults, but helpless infants can't grass you up, hit you, tell you to f**k off, or report you to someone who can stand up to you, and some of the things she said to the parents, contextually, are deeply sinister and nasty. She's the nurse, she's the authority figure and the person with the power. Try that in a peer group where you don't carry the 'boss' tag and you'll get a smack in the mouth at best. Most psychopaths have a diminished sense of fear and consequence, but most of them are not complete idiots and can judge when they can indulge their behaviours and when they can't. There's a reason men who are incandescent with family members and will beat the shit out of their partners don't necessarily act the same way in a work environment, even when faced with far greater and completely genuine 'provocation'. They can still rationalise that the consequences are just too severe to get away with ignoring impulse, but it does sometimes boil over anyway. The person I mentioned up thread was prone to this, although the big difference I can see between this person and Letby is Letby appears to be of at least average, or above average intelligence, whereas my psychopath/narcissist acquaintance was also a bit thick.

If they do eventually get to the bottom of what is going on in her head, I think it will not be a singular diagnosis, because there isn't a single one that adequately explains all of her behaviours, but multiple personality disorder/disorders is perfectly possible, and that can come along with other diagnosable mental illness/illnesses on top. She could be a whole melting pot of of conditions, and I think that's the most likely scenario. 

MPD is definitely not in the equation here; I don't even think there is a disorder here is at play. I genuinely think she's just fucking evil. I've been going through all the statements about her upbringing and social life; it just doesn't fit with any sort of diagnosis I could think of. This is what troubles me most. I can't believe any sort of psychopatic or sociapathic behaviours could be hidden so well when she appeared popular amongst other nurses, consultants, management and even parents. It's perplexed me to the highest degree. 

[Boo Khaki]

3 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

MPD is definitely not in the equation here; I don't even think there is a disorder here is at play. I genuinely think she's just fucking evil. I've been going through all the statements about her upbringing and social life; it just doesn't fit with any sort of diagnosis I could think of. This is what troubles me most. I can't believe any sort of psychopatic or sociapathic behaviours could be hidden so well when she appeared popular amongst other nurses, consultants, management and even parents. It's perplexed me to the highest degree. 

Beverley Allitt went off to prison with no diagnosis, developed anorexia nervosa, ended up in Rampton after a month, and was diagnosed with what used to be called MBP.

The reason Letby is perplexing is precisely because she's a whole gamut of disorders and illnesses. Her behaviours are not in any way normal, there is not a chance in hell she doesn't have diagnosable PD's. It's a question of whether she will bother to engage in any meaningful way that permits investigation.

I totally disagree with your assertion that the fact she is regarded as popular indicates there is nothing wrong or that she can't possibly be disordered. This isn't uncommon at all in psychopaths. Ted Bundy was notoriously popular and charismatic, hence why he was so easily able to lure young people to do his bidding. The accounts I've read of Shipman's prison time say that he was popular with inmates because of his sense of humour and jovial demeanour, yet he also had a long career as a community GP and is reckoned to have killed upwards of 200 victims. Grannies raved about what a lovely man he was. How do you explain any of that?

[highlandmac]

1 hour ago, throbber said:

They make it particularly difficult for you to commit suicide in jail. Unless you are Jeffery Epstein of course.

Can anyone tell me when she was allowed to not show up today?

They make it difficult for people who express suicidal thoughts to kill themselves

Folk quietly determined to do it who don't go on about it find it pretty easy to top themselves in jail

[Sergeant Wilson]

15 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

MPD is definitely not in the equation here; I don't even think there is a disorder here is at play. I genuinely think she's just fucking evil. I've been going through all the statements about her upbringing and social life; it just doesn't fit with any sort of diagnosis I could think of. This is what troubles me most. I can't believe any sort of psychopatic or sociapathic behaviours could be hidden so well when she appeared popular amongst other nurses, consultants, management and even parents. It's perplexed me to the highest degree. 

You don't half talk pish for someone with qualifications in this field.

[SweeperDee]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

Beverley Allitt went off to prison with no diagnosis, developed anorexia nervosa, ended up in Rampton after a month, and was diagnosed with what used to be called MBP.

The reason Letby is perplexing is precisely because she's a whole gamut of disorders and illnesses. Her behaviours are not in any way normal, there is not a chance in hell she doesn't have diagnosable PD's. It's a question of whether she will bother to engage in any meaningful way that permits investigation.

I totally disagree with your assertion that the fact she is regarded as popular indicates there is nothing wrong or that she can't possibly be disordered. This isn't uncommon at all in psychopaths. Ted Bundy was notoriously popular and charismatic, hence why he was so easily able to lure young people to do his bidding. The accounts I've read of Shipman's prison time say that he was popular with inmates because of his sense of humour and jovial demeanour, yet he also had a long career as a community GP and is reckoned to have killed upwards of 200 victims. Grannies raved about what a lovely man he was. How do you explain any of that?

Psychopathy is very hard to hide; she had not recorded instances of psychosis. All of your examples had clear signs/instances of psychopathy. Beverely Allitt was always seen as a relatively incompentent nurse, something which Lucy was not seen as. She was seen as competent, normal, and well liked. People have suspicions of Allitt much sooner than Lucy since her behaviour was much more erratic. 

[Boo Khaki]

Psychosis is not a prerequisite for Psychopathy. I do not understand why you are connecting the two.