Busta Nut Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 minute ago, RH33 said: I didn't mean to, I simply highlighted that prior to trial no history of mental health had been found, no instances of psychosis etc but it seems to have snowballed. It wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. Loads of people nit picking on things 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) I think people probably don't want to accept that difficult topics such as infanticide might have the potential for being normal or acceptable to some. I don't think society wants to have a serious discussion around or acceptance that it's a part of the human condition and would rather it boxed as evil or bonkers and so on because it fits outside of the norm. Edited August 21, 2023 by 2426255 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 The purpose of a trial is to determine fact. Frequently, establishing motive will feed into the pattern of circumstancial evidence that assists the jury in determining fact, but in cases like this there is no immediately obvious motive, so the trials proceed on the presumptive basis that there is sufficient evidence to convict without establishing motive. Ascertaining what the motive is in serial killers is invariably a lengthy and invasive process, so first off all, there is no reasonable basis for subjecting an "innocent" person to that invasive process prior to trial, and secondly, it could take years and years of psychiatric and psychological investigation and assessment to reach a satisfactory conclusion anyway, further delaying justicial process. Just because Letby is not a diagnosed psychopath, or does not already have a diagnosis of Facticious does not mean there is nothing "wrong" with her, and the only avenue left is to write her off as "evil", she has not yet been assessed for these because establishing motive was not necessary to establish her guilt. That does not mean there is no motive or that motivating factors will not be determined in good time. ASPD, possible NPD, and a helping of Factitious disorder imposed on another would be my guess, but we'll no doubt find out in the fullness of time. She's clearly bonkers, for want of a better term, the fact it has not yet been established exactly how doesn't alter that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 Her defence offered no mitigation at the sentencing this morning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 55 minutes ago, s_dog said: Wasn't it reported on Panorama that the unit was downgraded? So they still treat babies, but not ones as seriously ill as they did previously. It wasn't just the deaths either, it was the number of close things when babies were saved from dying. They had 25 'incidents' in total they looked at, and all the other nurses were on shift 5 or 6 times at most in those cases. With the exception of Letby who was on shift for all 25 of them. I haven’t seen the Panorama Programme on it, largely i have ignored almost everything I have seen on the topic, apart from some stuff that a friend who works in that field posted(now deleted) on social media. From what I have seen, the circumstantial evidence against her paints a fairly overwhelming picture. I just found it odd that they were using stats like the one I mentioned without giving the full context of it. And a thought I just had - Panorama appears to have outlined everything that made it a conclusive “Guilty” verdict. Given it came out almost bang on the verdict being delivered, it had clearly been some time in the making. What would have happened if she had somehow been found not guilty? Did they have an alternative version of the programme lined up that was far more sympathetic in tone with arguments against all of the evidence presented? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMoore Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 3 hours ago, hk blues said: Because they don't know what it is? Neither do I but I was hoping someone would've had some deranged suggestions.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, RuMoore said: Neither do I but I was hoping someone would've had some deranged suggestions.. @Donathanwould put her in the room with the elephant until it naturally sat on her. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Just now, Sergeant Wilson said: @Donathanwould put her in the room with the elephant until it naturally sat on her. Sat in a chair until it naturally conducted some electricity IMHO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Sat in a chair until it naturally conducted some electricity IMHO Put in a giant fish tank with a tap turned on until it naturally drowned her. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) I see her former senior manager has now been suspended. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66569258 Edited August 21, 2023 by Michael W 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, Ross. said: And a thought I just had - Panorama appears to have outlined everything that made it a conclusive “Guilty” verdict. Given it came out almost bang on the verdict being delivered, it had clearly been some time in the making. What would have happened if she had somehow been found not guilty? Did they have an alternative version of the programme lined up that was far more sympathetic in tone with arguments against all of the evidence presented? I think I read somewhere that she actually got found guilty of at least some of the stuff a couple of weeks ago, but because the jury were still deliberating on other bits there were reporting restrictions in place. So panorama presumably had time to edit their footage to suit either way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/personality-disorders/what-are-personality-disorders "Diagnosed by a mental health professional". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said: I think I read somewhere that she actually got found guilty of at least some of the stuff a couple of weeks ago, but because the jury were still deliberating on other bits there were reporting restrictions in place. So panorama presumably had time to edit their footage to suit either way. Yes, I think unanimous verdicts were accepted but there were reporting restrictions in place while other charges were considered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Minertaur Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Any chance the people doing the roadworks nearby could take a lunch break? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Judge's sentencing comments pretty well live here. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66551231 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Whole life order. No surprises there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest Saints Fan Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Those victim impact statements were heartbreaking. Particularly the one parent who talked about the memory box the hospital made for their child including hand and footprints. Now she was conflicted about keeping them as they were made by her child's killer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highlandmac Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Donathan said: I don’t believe in the death penalty but I’d be fine with them just locking her in a cell and leaving her there without food until she dies of natural causes That's pretty evil too And don't give us this "I don't believe in the death penalty" pish then come out with something like that 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, Honest Saints Fan said: Those victim impact statements were heartbreaking. Particularly the one parent who talked about the memory box the hospital made for their child including hand and footprints. Now she was conflicted about keeping them as they were made by her child's killer That’s the thing that really gets to me about it all. Not just the murders, which in themselves are horrific, but the efforts she made to insert herself into the aftermath with the victims. I’m not a parent, but the bit about one of the mums living knowing that Letby was the last person to hold her baby really was really hard to read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 I know it isnae popular but I'd honestly let people kick her to death. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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