The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

Do one.

[Michael W]

Lets see.

Raith are effectively insolvent. Their accounts were qualified by the auditors - emphasis of matter - going concern. Liabilities exceed assets by £309,990, Raith are living day to day on the basis of donations and soft loans; £70,000 just last month without which wages would not have been paid. Raith been unable to pay HMRC on time for a number of years and keep having to pay up late.

So what punishment do Raith deserve for their financial mess?

Hadly something that is unique in Scottish football.

David Murray has stated in the past that he put £100M into Rangers during his time as chairman. How is this any different from the way our directors are running the club? I don't approve of it right enough, but you're flogging a dead horse there if you're trying to complain about how much of an injustice this all is. Whilst we're on the subject, our director's involvement on the panel has little to do with Raith Rovers; 'Raith Rovers' aren't acting here, and neither did they give you the punishment.

You'll also note that whilst we may have had issues with HMRC, the bills have, erm, actually been paid. Fail.

As for our finances - like every other loss-making club (except your mob) in Scottish football, we aren't in administration. Nae joy.

So yeah, that's us. How are Rangers doing?

[Ro Sham Bo]

Lets see.

Raith are effectively insolvent. Their accounts were qualified by the auditors - emphasis of matter - going concern. Liabilities exceed assets by £309,990, Raith are living day to day on the basis of donations and soft loans; £70,000 just last month without which wages would not have been paid. Raith [/?color]been unable to pay HMRC on time for a number of years and keep having to pay up late.

So what punishment do Raith deserve for their financial mess?

I think that the nature of finances in football is such that the majority of full-time clubs in Scotland will have an emphasis of matter paragraph in the auditors' report, or at least they should have if the auditor is doing their job properly.

To compare the situation that we, and a lot of other clubs, are in to the rangers scenario is ridiculous. We at least agreed a payment plan with hmrc.

[Broken Algorithms]

Lets see.

Raith are effectively insolvent. Their accounts were qualified by the auditors - emphasis of matter - going concern. Liabilities exceed assets by £309,990, Raith are living day to day on the basis of donations and soft loans; £70,000 just last month without which wages would not have been paid. Raith been unable to pay HMRC on time for a number of years and keep having to pay up late.

So what punishment do Raith deserve for their financial mess?

Regardless of who has been paying our taxes, they have as to this moment been paid. In this respect, we are due no punishment so far. There was an issue last summer in that HMRC told us there was to be an immediate repayment as opposed to a payment plan, but that problem was fixed. Rangers on the otherhand have decided to cheat and lie their way to SPL titles while pointing the finger at everyone except from those responsible. If you want someone to blame, you need only look at your own club.

In sum, go f**k yourself.

[Toddy]

Here`s a little bit of info that i just pulled from DAFC.NET ( Thanks to Londonparsfan ). Maybe you should pass this onto any other stupid delusional Rangers fans that you may know.

http://dafc.info/forum/read.php?f=1&i=1156920&t=1156920

seemed to have vanished just as I'd typed this epic educational piece aimed at delusional Rangers fans. Having invested that much time I'm bloody posting it!!!!!

Actually I'm going to play in the hope we can at least educate one person as to why nobody is out to get Rangers and comparisons like these are completely pointless as the scenarios are not even remotely connected. So response is as follows:

- loss for the year £162,000 (2010: loss £73,000) -

surprisingly good for Rovers tbh, we're in the process of losing more than that having just been in the SPL.

- balance sheet insolvent to the tune of £1.4m - not the greatest but not exactly the worst.

The liabilities are being serviced as best they can and hopefully they will erode the overall debt. circa £10 million better than us and about £100 million better than Rangers not to mention less than most SPL sides. Not entirely sure what a small club being in debt has to do with the judicial process?

- this excludes £201,000 of unpaid rent that the landlords have waived for the moment but retain the right to claim later.

Lucky Rovers having flexible creditors, fair play for taking the time to make an arrangement that benefits them financially.

- net current liabilities £310,000 - payroll taxes and VAT outstanding of £78,000 (2010: £118,000)

A business has outgoings? Really? Now that is a big surprise.

- was only able to pay some of its bills because other directors paid in £52,000

Well played the directors for paying the clubs bills with their own money. Now if only all clubs would do that....

going concern emphasis of matter by the auditors which cast "significant doubt on the company's ability to continue as a going concern".

This is standard auditor language and due to the way football finance runs its on just about every set of footballing returns I've ever seen including ours. What is your point here?

- disclosure that "the company does not have formal funding facilities in place that allow it to meet its liabilities as they fall due".

Most clubs don't and again this is frequent language used by auditors in football. Again completely irrelevant to anything to do with what is happening at Rangers it just means that Rovers are a small business who don't have formal funding facilities. It doesn't mean they can't fund them.

- disclosure that a group restructuring took place in 2005, the terms of which were "incorrectly documented" and an "assumed waiver of the loan ... has not in fact been made".

No idea about this and I can't be @rsed looking up what happened as it's completely irrelevant to the Rangers situation. If anyone at Raith has made any errors that require a penalty then that would be investigated and charged by whichever appropriate governing body (football or financial) was the correct one to pursue the issue. I might be wrong but as far as I know no such charge has been made.

Drysdale owned 0.0003% of the 327,400 ordinary shares and 0.5% of the 10,000 preference shares. If he has made any money in banking, it doesn't appear that he has invested it in football.

It's his money he can do what he likes with it. If the Rovers didn't want him on the board then they wouldn't have him. There is also the possibility that he has put money into the club but not for shares. It might very well be his cash that is being used to pay the bills either as a donation or a loan. You don't know from this.

Although there were payroll taxes and VAT due at the year end, these weren't necessarily overdue at that time. How £78,000 was paid in full the following month when there was only £27,000 in the bank at 30 June would be a legitimate question to ask. Likewise the year before, £118,000 taxes due but £44,000 in the bank.

It is a legitimate question to ask and can probably be found in the following in the next set of accounts. Most likely a director has had to fork out his own cash to keep the club ticking over.

In the interests of transparency, perhaps Drysdale would like to make a statement confirming that, during his directorship, Raith Rovers have never been late with any tax payments. If he is sitting in judgement of Rangers on these matters, surely that's the least we can expect?

No. Raith's taxes are nothing to do with the case. He was sitting in judgement of an independent SFA investigation which has nothing to do with Raith Rovers. To be on that panel he would have had to pass the appropriate background checks something which the owner of Ranger's failed to do. Crucially he SFA charges are nothing to do with the taxes Rangers owe. That is another issue which should be looked at separately and if any wrong doing is found, prosecuted by the appropriate body with a punishment relative to (no more and no less) any offences that Rangers are guilty of. The SFA charges were:

"Rule 1 (b): All members shall: (b) be subject to and comply with the Articles and any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions and International Match Calendar promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel, a Committee or sub-committee, Fifa, Uefa or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;

"Rule 2: Each member shall procure that its officials, its Team Staff and its players act in accordance with Rule 1.

"Rule 14 (g): Full membership or associate membership may be suspended or terminated, or a fine may be issued, in any of the following circumstances:- (g) where a full member or an associate member suffers or is subject to an insolvency event.

"Rule 66: No recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other member of Team Staff, player, referee, or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall bring the game into disrepute.

"Rule 71: A recognised football body, club, official, Team Official, other member of Team Staff, player or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA shall, at all times, act in the best interests of Association Football and shall not act in any manner which is improper."

The full sanction under 14(g) could have been invoked but wasn't.

Anything to do with B&B is even less relevant than the above but the one point I will answer is the companies file late returns all the time and pay the fine. It's not good practice but is unlikely to leave you as an unfit person under the SFA checks.

All in all you've successfully managed to highlight that Rovers are skint and a business doing pretty much nothing (if it's biggest loss was 7K and the balance was 15K) was closed down (scary term liquidated). All of which are completely irrelevant to what is going on at Rangers.

Please please copy and paste this onto whichever Rangers forum you lifted the above from so people can stop trying to make comparisons which are completely daft.

There have been numerous transfer embargo's for clubs not paying money due to other clubs across the whole of Europe. This is nothing specific to Ranger both Dundee and Livi have been here. It is unfortunate for Rangers that the timing may have an impact on their market appeal but if anyone does take them over they just have to consider that in their offer.

The plus side is that there will be little need for any complex tax structures as there won't be any new registrations. I don't want to see any club go to the wall but the hysteria around Rangers being hard done by is laughable. If the SFA had revoked their membership which would have been completely unprecedented then you would have a point but this is guff.

[CALDERON]

Lets see.

Raith are effectively insolvent. Their accounts were qualified by the auditors - emphasis of matter - going concern. Liabilities exceed assets by £309,990, Raith are living day to day on the basis of donations and soft loans; £70,000 just last month without which wages would not have been paid. Raith been unable to pay HMRC on time for a number of years and keep having to pay up late.

So what punishment do Raith deserve for their financial mess?

Fail.

You must be the same guy who went on FanTalk and was proved wrong, and the same guy who started the thread on the Rangers forum.

[roverthemoon]

I noticed yesterday someone had stuck a whole load of videos on YouTube of Rangers games. Include a few classics for the Rovers. Great to see Stevie Simpson in action and pretty impressed with the crowd we took to Ibrox.

[Rovers_Lad]

this excludes £201,000 of unpaid rent that the landlords have waived for the moment but retain the right to claim later.

If thats to do with stadiuim rental/payment that would relate to many years of non payment which I believe is not the case

[mrpaddyx]

I noticed yesterday someone had stuck a whole load of videos on YouTube of Rangers games. Include a few classics for the Rovers. Great to see Stevie Simpson in action and pretty impressed with the crowd we took to Ibrox.

Saw the team line ups in both games and saw one player who is no longer with us, RIP Ronnie Coyle.

[Alan y k Dall]

Ah memories, hadn't seen those clips for years. Was at the games and now just a distant memory. Bingo Simpson :-) fish suppers at Johnnys down the links after the games with my Dad. Happy days indeed.

[Ro Sham Bo]

According to the official site we have sold a record number of season tickets

http://www.raithrovers.net/3069/season-ticket-sales.htm

Not sure if that means a record take up on an early bird offer or record sales full stop, but either way it's encouraging.

[roverthemoon]

At the risk of being a little cynical I suspect the free primary school tickets will boost the numbers significantly. Still these are the fans of the future so all good

[Yoss]

It's not just the juniors, they'd run out of senior citizen books as well.

[Mij]

At the risk of being a little cynical I suspect the free primary school tickets will boost the numbers significantly. Still these are the fans of the future so all good

Yes if its actually primary school kids that are using them.I`d like to think there are more stringent checks at the turnstiles.On what I have witnessed at present and in the past turnstile operators make no check on season ticket users so unless the turnstile operators actually check whos using them i suspect these tickets will be open to abuse eg adult entering using a junior season ticket or adult but not SC using a senior citizens ticket Much like the lack of checks done at the office on those purchasing jobseekers tickets eg someone in full time employment using someone elses dole card to pick up cheap ticket

[RoversMad]

Lets see.

Raith are effectively insolvent. Their accounts were qualified by the auditors - emphasis of matter - going concern. Liabilities exceed assets by £309,990, Raith are living day to day on the basis of donations and soft loans; £70,000 just last month without which wages would not have been paid. Raith been unable to pay HMRC on time for a number of years and keep having to pay up late.

So what punishment do Raith deserve for their financial mess?

Can't you see the difference between struggling to pay tax/paying it late and just not fuckin paying it at all??

[Raith Against The Machine]

Apparently there's a statement coming very shortly, but Matt Elder's on Twitter reporting that John McGlynn has taken a pay-cut and signed a new one year contract.

What a bloke.

[Ro Sham Bo]

A one year contract is the right decision for me. Fair play to McGlynn for taking a pay cut though.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

A one year contract is the right decision for me. Fair play to McGlynn for taking a pay cut though.

Grant Murray did the same last year, but got a two year deal for his loyalty.

[CALDERON]

Well done Mcglynn. What a guy!

[Ro Sham Bo]

Grant Murray did the same last year, but got a two year deal for his loyalty.

I still reckon its all being set up for Murray to take over from McGlynn. Sooner or later part-time football will be inevitable and that might be the time McGlynn calls it a day. The part time issue is probably part of the reason only a one year has been handed out

I'll be surprised if we hand out any 2 year full-time playing contracts as well.