The SPFL vote vote

[craigkillie]

How would a General Meeting of 42 clubs plus say maybe 10 other people work on Zoom.  Would be chaotic as far as my knowledge of Zoom goes.  Clubs are surely going to need to see something concrete from Rangers beforehand 

How would it be any more chaotic than an in-person meeting of those same 50ish people?

[Cowden Cowboy]

22 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

How would it be any more chaotic than an in-person meeting of those same 50ish people?

Because many of the folk involved are novices on Zoom and this is likely to be a contentious one subject meeting with many differing views not a systematic run through an agenda 

[coprolite]

6 hours ago, Snafu said:

They need 29 other clubs to get backing for the probe https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18405354.rangers-requisition-needs-another-29-clubs-back-get-probe---spfl-deem-competent/

I see it all as a long game, every attempt that presents itself to undermine the SPFL. This is all about power, if Rangers have more power within the governing bodies, with the other clubs with less as in the good old days, they are not at a disadvantage, disadvantage here being treated the same as any other club. The more power, the more pressure and lobby power to for example league recontruction, gain from tv deals etc. Stacking the deck in their favour. The playground bully is still the playground bully, they are just kept in check for the moment.

 

I doubt they care if they get a probe or not. I have no inside knowledge, but based on the fact that Rangers say they want an inquiry, i think they don't want an inquiry. 

[Pet Jeden]

5 hours ago, coprolite said:

I doubt they care if they get a probe or not. I have no inside knowledge, but based on the fact that Rangers say they want an inquiry, i think they don't want an inquiry. 

Tell you what, by doubling down with their latest statement they're doing a decent impression of having some worthwhile dirt on the SPFL. If I was McLennan  (and if I was comfortable with my own part in the SPFL's actions), I would be thinking about chucking Doncaster under the bus and agreeing that an independent inquiry was indeed needed.  Of course, he's an independent Chairman. But still, I wonder what Celtic's view is?

[GordonD]

On 25/04/2020 at 10:41, coprolite said:

For the rest of us, like when any 7 year old is having a noisy tantrum, it's best to just ignore them. 

Actually there's been an advert on in the last week or so on how to deal with a child having a tantrum during lockdown. It advises not shouting back at them but getting down to their level and acknowledging they have a problem and asking if they want to talk about it.

Might be worth trying at Ibrox.

[Ric]

2 hours ago, GordonD said:

Actually there's been an advert on in the last week or so on how to deal with a child having a tantrum during lockdown. It advises not shouting back at them but getting down to their level and acknowledging they have a problem and asking if they want to talk about it.

Might be worth trying at Ibrox.

The problem with that is it's the assumption there is a parent/child relationship here. Instead it's more akin to a recalcitrant resident in a tower block who will only be happy once every single one of their demands are met, even if it means other residents have their opinions ignored, while the tower block is run by an aloof and seemingly untouchable factor.

Ultimately a parent's best intentions are for their child, while in my analogy the factors would rather the resident just shuts up and is happy to continue on as normal even if they don't.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Ric

[coprolite]

4 hours ago, GordonD said:

Actually there's been an advert on in the last week or so on how to deal with a child having a tantrum during lockdown. It advises not shouting back at them but getting down to their level and acknowledging they have a problem and asking if they want to talk about it.

Might be worth trying at Ibrox.

How would you get down to that level though? 

[Romeo]

Surprise surprise. No points deducted for admin has just been floated.

I wonder who by...?

[craigkillie]

It makes no difference who it is by, it is obviously the right thing to do in these circumstances. Fingers crossed it doesn't get to that.

Edited April 27, 2020 by craigkillie

[Andy groundhopper]

I sometimes wonder what Rangers are trying to achieve in the short term, they weren't going to win the league after their bad run. We know all LGE committee's close ranks when threatened, and they usually have their fingers in the pies. Don't know if the whole spfl needs new blood or whether you could trust the new blood anyway. Wish these folk just make a decision in footballs interest, without being swayed by anyone. 

[akuram]

Glad we are keeping our head down and letting everyone else argue about it.

As long as it gets started when safe we should be fine.

[kent_don]

I’d be surprised if they got the 75% needed. I’m interested in the evidence though, looking forward to hearing that.
 

Looking at this whole saga, the sad thing is - none of this really ever goes away or gets cleared up until the losing side win some trophies. All that happens then is the other side of Glasgow starts to shout louder about corruption against them from either the refs/media/spfl/sfa/government/etc and we go full circle.

Edited April 27, 2020 by kent_don

[Green Day]

On 26/04/2020 at 16:46, coprolite said:

I doubt they care if they get a probe or not. I have no inside knowledge, but based on the fact that Rangers say they want an inquiry, i think they don't want an inquiry. 

I agree.

The ball is entirely in their court now / noose is firmly round their neck (delete as appropriate).

The SPFL have given them the General Meeting, there is a date in the diary (2 weeks time), and Rangers have said that they will provide their "dossier" well ahead of the meeting so its game on.

Rangers are playing either a brilliant piece of Machiavellian political theatre...................or shooting themselves in the foot as well as the fledgling reconstruction talks in the head.

I know where my money would be, but lets wait and see - I assume they will send it out about 5pm Friday via Whatsapp?

Edited April 28, 2020 by Green Day

[vikingTON]

14 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It makes no difference who it is by, it is obviously the right thing to do in these circumstances. 

No it isn't. If all 42 clubs were fucked then it'd be a different story, but this is likely to weed out those who didn't have a sustainable and resilient business model in the first place. Which should mean points deductions: including a much larger and rolling penalty for previous offenders.

[Johnstoun]

5 hours ago, virginton said:

No it isn't. If all 42 clubs were fucked then it'd be a different story, but this is likely to weed out those who didn't have a sustainable and resilient business model in the first place. Which should mean points deductions: including a much larger and rolling penalty for previous offenders.

Given the extraordinary circumstances maybe it's fair to give clubs a free hit. No deductions if it's your first admin, but the full 25 points if 2 or more.

[DA Baracus]

There are already rules about administration. You get deducted 15 points then 5, meaning if you go in to administration during a season you get deducted 15 points immediately then start with -5 the next. If a club goes in to administration between seasons it will start the next season on -15 then the season after on -5.

Almost certainly this won't apply to any clubs who go in to administration as a result of the pandemic, although they'd probably have to prove that they wouldn't have done so if there was no pandemic. This is because of rule E8.3:

 

E8

The only grounds on which a Club may appeal in terms of Rule E7 are that:
E8.3 the Deductible Insolvency Event, which resulted in the points deduction 
or deductions against which the appeal is made, arose as a result of a 
Force Majeure Event.

E7 are the rules around administration. I've pasted them below (link to the document is here: 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/images/shares/pdfs/067_324__rulesofthespflasat19_january_2018_1518083042.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjJntqPwIvpAhVJ4aQKHQ_KANwQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw1w78FC4gX4XB3l3Sj4Jx9f

E Club Financial Arrangements
Insolvency
E1 Where a Club takes, suffers or is subject to a Deductible Insolvency Event that Club 
shall, subject to Rule E4, be deducted 15 points and 5 points in the League in 
consecutive Seasons in terms of Rule E2 or Rule E3.
E2 Where a Club takes, suffers or is subject to a Deductible Insolvency Event during a 
Season the 15 points deduction shall be applied immediately to take effect in that 
Season, with the 5 points deduction being applied in the immediately following 
Season such that the relevant Club shall commence that immediately following 
Season in the relevant Division on minus 5 points.
E3 Where a Club takes, suffers or is subject to a Deductible Insolvency Event during a
Close Season the 15 points deduction shall be applied in the immediately following 
Season, such that the relevant Club shall commence that immediately following 
Season in the relevant Division on minus 15 points, with the 5 points deduction 
being applied in the Season next following the immediately following Season, such 
that the relevant Club shall commence that next following Season in the relevant 
Division on minus 5 points.
E4 Where a Club, whether owned and operated by the same or a different person and 
whether such person or persons is or was a Member, has taken, suffered or been 
subject to an Insolvency Event which resulted in a deduction of points in terms of 
these Rules, whether a Deductible Insolvency Event or not, or in terms of the SFL 
Rules and within 5 years of the date of such Insolvency Event which resulted in a 
deduction of points takes, suffers or is subject to a Deductible Insolvency Event the 
15 and 5 points deductions applicable in terms of Rules E2 or E3, in respect of such 
a Deductible Insolvency Event shall instead be 25 and 15 points respectively.
E5 For the purposes of Rules E1 to E4 (inclusive) and Rule E16 all references to a Club 
taking, suffering or being subject to an Insolvency Event, Deductible Insolvency 
Event and/or an Insolvency Process includes the owner and operator of that Club 
taking, suffering or being subject to an Insolvency Event, Deductible Insolvency 
Event and/or an Insolvency Process as the case may be and shall, if the Board so 
determines having regard to (i) the need to protect the integrity and continuity of 
the League; (ii) the reputation of the League; and (iii) the relationship between such 
owner and operator and the Group Undertaking concerned, include any Group 
Undertaking of such an owner and operator taking, suffering or being subject to an 
Insolvency Event, Deductible Insolvency Event and/or an Insolvency Process.
E6 The Secretary shall give written notice to a Club which is subject to a points 
deduction in terms of Rules E1 to E5 (inclusive) of each such points deduction. 
E7 A Club may, on the grounds set out in Rule E8, appeal to an Appeal Tribunal against 
a deduction of points in terms of Rules E1 to E4 (inclusive)

[weetoonlad]

Great Post so much info on it 

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Johnstoun said:

Given the extraordinary circumstances maybe it's fair to give clubs a free hit. No deductions if it's your first admin, but the full 25 points if 2 or more.

That's only drags down the credit rating of better run clubs thanks to those who failed to pay their creditors. Football authorities can't keep clubs on the straight and narrow but must continue to send a signal that financial mismanagement has serious sporting consequences as well: otherwise there can be no trust between other industries and the professional game.

Edited April 28, 2020 by vikingTON

[Dons_1988]

12 hours ago, virginton said:

That's only drags down the credit rating of better run clubs thanks to those who failed to pay their creditors. Football authorities can't keep clubs on the straight and narrow but must continue to send a signal that financial mismanagement has serious sporting consequences as well: otherwise there can be no trust between other industries and the professional game.

How many businesses do you know that are prepared for satisfying their financial commitments over a period of months when their revenue & cash inflows have unexpectedly stopped?

 

[Savage Henry]

How many businesses do you know that are prepared for satisfying their financial commitments over a period of months when their revenue & cash inflows have unexpectedly stopped?
 

Narrator: almost all of them was the correct answer.