The New Raith Rovers Thread

[San Starko Rover]

7 minutes ago, GordonD said:

Hypothetical question: If Goodwillie held his hands up and said, "Okay, I admit it, I did it" and promised to pay his victim the money awarded to her by the civil court, would that make him acceptable?

Acceptable for a bit of jail time. 

[Scary Bear]

10 minutes ago, GordonD said:

Hypothetical question: If Goodwillie held his hands up and said, "Okay, I admit it, I did it" and promised to pay his victim the money awarded to her by the civil court, would that make him acceptable?

I’m sure Police Scotland would prefer it this way. Makes everything a bit simpler when the criminals own up.

[oneteaminglasgow]

5 minutes ago, GordonD said:

Hypothetical question: If Goodwillie held his hands up and said, "Okay, I admit it, I did it" and promised to pay his victim the money awarded to her by the civil court, would that make him acceptable?

No, but it would certainly be an improvement on his “I haven’t got a nice car now” stuff from before.

[San Starko Rover]

19 minutes ago, McGuigan1978 said:

Thanks for listening and thanks for the comments. I think myself and Andy were both a wee bit worried about whether or not we could deal with the subject matter with the sensitivity it required, but hopefully we achieved that. 

In terms of how I'm feeling now, and whether or not that's changed since Tuesday evening, I think I probably have shifted slightly in my opinion. 

On Tuesday I was upset and angry, and my main focus was the fact we had a rapist who was about to be running about in a Rovers jersey each Saturday until 2024. 

Since then though, from reading comments and listening to others, I've probably taken a little more of a bigger picture look at things, namely, how on earth did we get here?

Ultimately, we're in this position because a number of people within the club, John McGlynn and four board members wanted, or were at least convinced to make it happen, and I'm very uncomfortable with that.

Goodwillie being huckled out the club is obviously a positive, but in my opinion, this has been the worst week in the club's 139 year history, and people need to be held accountable for it. 

Realistically, Sim isn't going anywhere, but I'd like other members of the board to consider their positions, and while I'm hugely saddened to say it, so does McGlynn. 

In my time of going to Stark's Park, I've only ever held Frank Connor in higher regard, including Jimmy Nicholl, but that's done now, unfortunately. I've lost so much respect for him. 

That said, I'm genuinely interested in what he's feeling right now. Is he gutted at what he's caused, mortified at how out of touch he was, or annoyed at losing out on his forward? Regardless, I'd still like him to go, but I can probably forgive him eventually if it's the former. The fact everyone so far has hidden behind statements isn't good enough. 

In terms of what I do next, I'll probably give the rest of this season a miss, then take stock in the summer and see how I feel, but right now, I think I need to see a change in the management team and at least a change of some description in the Board room, whether a refresh or gutting I'm not sure, but we can't be led by people who are happy to sign rapists so that we have a better chance of winning games of football. 

We deserve better than that, and we deserve better than them. 

As for this weekend, if I can, I'll try and get along to Windmill Park and watch McDermid Ladies on Sunday. I've no idea if John Sim has even given them a moments thought in all this, he certainly didn't mention them or David Goodwillie's victim in his mealy mouthed statement the other day, but goodness knows they deserve some support after this week, and I'll give it to them. 

Fully respect your choice and well said.  
 

I won’t criticise anyone on whether they attend on Saturday, or chose to not attend until a certain event happens.  An absolutely terrible position we’ve all been put in with fans arguing over who has to go and who can stay. Definitely the worst week in our history brought about by the arrogance and stupidity of a few. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by San Starko Rover

[oneteaminglasgow]

9 minutes ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

I believe this would leave him wide open to further criminal charge.

 

4 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said:

Acceptable for a bit of jail time. 

 

Just now, Scary Bear said:

I’m sure Police Scotland would prefer it this way. Makes everything a bit simpler when the criminals own up.

Also, I don’t even think that this is the case. He could, for example, have said something along the lines of “I maintain that my actions that night were not criminal and that I did not commit rape. However, it is clear that my actions were not acceptable and have caused a great deal of harm to the victim, and for that I apologise”

[Bandohope]

19 minutes ago, McGuigan1978 said:

Thanks for listening and thanks for the comments. I think myself and Andy were both a wee bit worried about whether or not we could deal with the subject matter with the sensitivity it required, but hopefully we achieved that. 

In terms of how I'm feeling now, and whether or not that's changed since Tuesday evening, I think I probably have shifted slightly in my opinion. 

On Tuesday I was upset and angry, and my main focus was the fact we had a rapist who was about to be running about in a Rovers jersey each Saturday until 2024. 

Since then though, from reading comments and listening to others, I've probably taken a little more of a bigger picture look at things, namely, how on earth did we get here?

Ultimately, we're in this position because a number of people within the club, John McGlynn and four board members wanted, or were at least convinced to make it happen, and I'm very uncomfortable with that.

Goodwillie being huckled out the club is obviously a positive, but in my opinion, this has been the worst week in the club's 139 year history, and people need to be held accountable for it. 

Realistically, Sim isn't going anywhere, but I'd like other members of the board to consider their positions, and while I'm hugely saddened to say it, so does McGlynn. 

In my time of going to Stark's Park, I've only ever held Frank Connor in higher regard, including Jimmy Nicholl, but that's done now, unfortunately. I've lost so much respect for him. 

That said, I'm genuinely interested in what he's feeling right now. Is he gutted at what he's caused, mortified at how out of touch he was, or annoyed at losing out on his forward? Regardless, I'd still like him to go, but I can probably forgive him eventually if it's the former. The fact everyone so far has hidden behind statements isn't good enough. 

In terms of what I do next, I'll probably give the rest of this season a miss, then take stock in the summer and see how I feel, but right now, I think I need to see a change in the management team and at least a change of some description in the Board room, whether a refresh or gutting I'm not sure, but we can't be led by people who are happy to sign rapists so that we have a better chance of winning games of football. 

We deserve better than that, and we deserve better than them. 

As for this weekend, if I can, I'll try and get along to Windmill Park and watch McDermid Ladies on Sunday. I've no idea if John Sim has even given them a moments thought in all this, he certainly didn't mention them or David Goodwillie's victim in his mealy mouthed statement the other day, but goodness knows they deserve some support after this week, and I'll give it to them. 

Where can I find that podcast

Meant podcast?

[Raith Against The Machine]

1 minute ago, Bandohope said:

Where can I find that podcast

Meant podcast?

I'd thoroughly recommend it, for everyone. 

 

[Scary Bear]

5 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

 

 

Also, I don’t even think that this is the case. He could, for example, have said something along the lines of “I maintain that my actions that night were not criminal and that I did not commit rape. However, it is clear that my actions were not acceptable and have caused a great deal of harm to the victim, and for that I apologise”

I assumed he has or had a lawyer who advised against. There are some lawyers on here. I wonder what they would have advised him?

Only Lionel Hutz would be happy with his client giving that statement -  "Okay, I admit it, I did it"

Edited February 4, 2022 by Scary Bear

[San Starko Rover]

5 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

 

 

Also, I don’t even think that this is the case. He could, for example, have said something along the lines of “I maintain that my actions that night were not criminal and that I did not commit rape. However, it is clear that my actions were not acceptable and have caused a great deal of harm to the victim, and for that I apologise”

Sounds like a Priti Patel apology

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 minute ago, San Starko Rover said:

Sounds like a Priti Patel apology

Oh it absolutely is, but it’s still better than mewling about having a shite car. 

[Specky Ginger]

2 hours ago, stevoraith said:

I wonder if anybody who walked out (I'm thinking of the volunteers really) have gone back yet?

 

Will be very interesting to see if we have a match day announcer, social media posts or a Raith TV package of any sort for Saturdays game.

Certainly no match programme, either in hard copy or digital format, this weekend.

[Florentine_Pogen]

26 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Also, I don’t even think that this is the case. He could, for example, have said something along the lines of “I maintain that my actions that night were not criminal and that I did not commit rape. However, it is clear that my actions were not acceptable and have caused a great deal of harm to the victim, and for that I apologise”

Happy to be corrected here but I previously read an article that stated that Goodwillie & Robertson told concerned bystanders regarding the inebriated condition of Ms. Clair that they were "taking her to hospital" to be checked upon. They subsequently put her into Goodwillie's car (he had been drinking) and they took her to a flat and raped her.

As an aside, my wife is American, is a feminist and has been following this story assiduously over the last few days. She pointed out to me that in the States, anyone carrying out the above described crime would possibly be charged with kidnap and rape and a very lengthy jail sentence if found guilty. Even a potential life stretch.

Edited February 4, 2022 by Florentine_Pogen

[Specky Ginger]

1 hour ago, ATLIS said:

I think that's the part of the comparison that's melting folk's brains - the line of actually admitting what you've done. It's the first step to rehabilitating yourself, Goodwillie has done absolutely f**k all to even get past it. He's ignored it and hoped it'd go away

I'd imagine the most likely reason for Goodwillie not admitting what he did is that it would effectively reopen the criminal case against him and he'd be looking at several years in the shovel.

[renton]

39 minutes ago, GordonD said:

Hypothetical question: If Goodwillie held his hands up and said, "Okay, I admit it, I did it" and promised to pay his victim the money awarded to her by the civil court, would that make him acceptable?

Wouldn't that leave him open to a criminal case?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

On a brighter note.

 

 

[Beastie Russell]

There must be an opportunity for shareholders to call for an EGM or submit a vote of no confidence in the board ?

[Michael W]

47 minutes ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

I believe this could leave him wide open to further criminal charge.

I am not sure it does. He has never denied that he had sex with the  victim, merely that he believes it to have been consensual. He denies that he raped her. 

Regardless of his own belief regarding the events, his actions have had a profound impact upon the victim. I don't see why he can't at least show remorse that his actions have affected the victim in the way that they have, whilst maintaining that he did not commit that crime. I don't think these things are incompatible. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by Michael W

[Benjamin_Nevis]

33 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Also, I don’t even think that this is the case. He could, for example, have said something along the lines of “I maintain that my actions that night were not criminal and that I did not commit rape. However, it is clear that my actions were not acceptable and have caused a great deal of harm to the victim, and for that I apologise”

I have to say that from the victim's point of view, that would probably be utterly horrendous. He can either open apologise and admit to what he did and face all the consequences of that, or he can continue in his current vein of denial/mewl about driving a shit car. 

Since he's an absolute coward it'll be the latter.

[craigkillie]

15 minutes ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

As an aside, my wife is American, is a feminist and has been following this story assiduously over the last few days. She pointed out to me that in the States, anyone carrying out the above described crime would possibly be charged with kidnap and rape and a very lengthy jail sentence if found guilty. Even a potential life stretch.

Let's not pretend that the US justice system is any better in this respect when dealing with (relatively) powerful men and accusations against them.

[Florentine_Pogen]

2 minutes ago, Michael W said:

I am not sure it does. He has never denied that he had sex with the  victim, merely that he believes it to have been consensual. He denies that he raped her. 

Regardless of his own belief regarding the events, his actions have had a profound impact upon huge victim. I don't see why he can't at least show remorse that his actions have affected the victim in the way that they have, whilst maintaining that he did not commit that crime. I don't think these things are incompatible. 

Thanks for that. I'd read that he'd been advised by his brief not to offer an apology as it might have some sort of culpability repercussions.