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As to whether this is terrorism, I guess there are points that say it is and those that say it isn't.

There is clearly an incel/blackpill ideology of sorts, a mode of thinking.  There have been several mass killings associated with this movement and probably lots of lower level violence too.  There was a case in Edinburgh where someone was convicted of building pipe bombs as part of this movement - he had previously stabbed a policeman who was working to deradicalise him but he got community service somehow.  I don't think you can say that it's a poltical movement though - what are their goals?  What political changes do they support?  It just seems a howling rage against women and humanity in general to me, although I can't claim expertise.

However, can it be said that there is a political purpose behind these killings?  It seems just nihilistic violence.  The fact that it targeted his own family also backs that up.  But on the other hand, a lot of terrorism is nihilistic violence for it's own sake and many terrorists commit violence against family members before their attacks.  There is a professor who has published a book advocating for the view that domestic violence should be treated as a significant risk factor for radicalisation and terrorism - a very high percetnage of suicide terrorists or attackers in the UK have committed domestic violence in the past.  

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7 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

As to whether this is terrorism, I guess there are points that say it is and those that say it isn't.

There is clearly an incel/blackpill ideology of sorts, a mode of thinking.  There have been several mass killings associated with this movement and probably lots of lower level violence too.  There was a case in Edinburgh where someone was convicted of building pipe bombs as part of this movement - he had previously stabbed a policeman who was working to deradicalise him but he got community service somehow.  I don't think you can say that it's a poltical movement though - what are their goals?  What political changes do they support?  It just seems a howling rage against women and humanity in general to me, although I can't claim expertise.

However, can it be said that there is a political purpose behind these killings?  It seems just nihilistic violence.  The fact that it targeted his own family also backs that up.  But on the other hand, a lot of terrorism is nihilistic violence for it's own sake and many terrorists commit violence against family members before their attacks.  There is a professor who has published a book advocating for the view that domestic violence should be treated as a significant risk factor for radicalisation and terrorism - a very high percetnage of suicide terrorists or attackers in the UK have committed domestic violence in the past.  

It's not political, it's societal changes that Incels want. They want the popular folk who get their hole all the time (Chads and Staceys, as they're known in America) to feel small and insignificant like they do. They want pretty girls to stop chasing "bad guys" and in their twisted logic, killing some of them will do that. Not sure what this guy was hoping to achieve by murdering his family, unless he felt they were the reason he was an Incel. In the case of the Toronto van attack though, it's difficult to say that driving a van down a city pavement over numerous unsuspecting innocent people isn't terrorism, regardless of what the guys goal was. 

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1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

Not sure what this guy was hoping to achieve by murdering his family

Doesn't sound like he killed his family, just one woman that knew him. Some reporting that she's his maw. But the rest sound like a tragic case of wrong place wrong time.

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Just now, 101 said:

Doesn't sound like he killed his family, just one woman that knew him. Some reporting that she's his maw. But the rest sound like a tragic case of wrong place wrong time.

Sorry, I thought I'd read his parents were 2 of the victims. Probably best we don't speculate too much now until we see what's happened.

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The police just gave a press conference, sounds like most of the victims weren't known to the victim.  He shot and killed a very young girl in the park and her male relative.  Absolutely horrific.

Here's a quick Twitter thread on the incel movement and what they are and believe (in so much as you can generalise it).  Covers some of the stuff that Moonster mentioned.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Police also said he shot himself rather than the police killing him.

The witness reports of a pump action shot gun are a bit worrying surely you can't get a licence for that in the UK?

Hopefully folk got confused and it's just a regular one he had a licence for.

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2 minutes ago, 101 said:

The witness reports of a pump action shot gun are a bit worrying surely you can't get a licence for that in the UK?

Hopefully folk got confused and it's just a regular one he had a licence for.

Police said that the gun was legally held.

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40 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

The police just gave a press conference, sounds like most of the victims weren't known to the victim.  He shot and killed a very young girl in the park and her male relative.  Absolutely horrific.

Here's a quick Twitter thread on the incel movement and what they are and believe (in so much as you can generalise it).  Covers some of the stuff that Moonster mentioned.

 

 

Absolutely dumbfounded to find Toby Young is sympathetic towards incel victimhood.

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48 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Further evidence for state sponsored National Getting Your Hole Service at 18 imo.

(or 49 in case the govt are reading this)

For incels it's not about getting their hole it's about a wider more mental cult.

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6 minutes ago, coprolite said:

No evidence this guy was an incel as such is there? 

Common or garden VL. 

Some of his reported videos seem to lean that way.

 

Anyway started a thread so as not to clutter up things to share.

 

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1 hour ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Further evidence for state sponsored National Getting Your Hole Service at 18 imo.

(or 49 in case the govt are reading this)

The state would have to accept a bid from the lowest tender though. 

blackadder.jpg.f820f46243d41daca53a91c9de4fc577.jpg

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1 minute ago, DiegoDiego said:
18 minutes ago, coprolite said:
No evidence this guy was an incel as such is there? 
Common or garden VL. 

He's stated that he's not getting his hole and he'd desperately like to. That's the definition of incel, no?

Thousands of married men might disagree 

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