The Falkirk FC Thread

[H_B]

My point is that people can talk tactics till you are blue in the face but if the players are not good enough then you can be Sir Alex and fail to win games.

You can't still be defending Pressley? Surely not...

[MattBairn]

My point is that people can talk tactics till you are blue in the face but if the players are not good enough then you can be Sir Alex and fail to win games.

Its a fair point but one that's not really relevant to what's happening at Falkirk.

The manager has to get he players to know their own roles and play to their best regardless of their individual abilities. Pressley simply isn't doing that.

I do appreciate that he has lost a few good players but if he cant adapt a system to suit the players we currently have then he's not the man for the job.

I thought at the time that Pressley had thrown a double 6 last season and had no idea why, I really hoped I was wrong. Don't look like it at the moment.

[Guest]

Its a fair point but one that's not really relevant to what's happening at Falkirk.

The manager has to get he players to know their own roles and play to their best regardless of their individual abilities. Pressley simply isn't doing that.

I do appreciate that he has lost a few good players but if he cant adapt a system to suit the players we currently have then he's not the man for the job.

I thought at the time that Pressley had thrown a double 6 last season and had no idea why, I really hoped I was wrong. Don't look like it at the moment.

That's my biggest concern. The rot didn't set in after we lost the key players.........it set in well before that. The last few games against Airdrie, Livvy and Hamilton clearly demonstrated that we had better players than them.....yet despite bright(ish) openings, we were never at the races. We struggle to score goals, and we concede goals in every game we play. It really is a recipe for disaster.

[MattBairn]

That's my biggest concern. The rot didn't set in after we lost the key players.........it set in well before that. The last few games against Airdrie, Livvy and Hamilton clearly demonstrated that we had better players than them.....yet despite bright(ish) openings, we were never at the races. We struggle to score goals, and we concede goals in every game we play. It really is a recipe for disaster.

For me the performances plummeted when we lost 1 player. Higgy, as soon as he went we found it very difficult to create.

[nowthennowthen]

Every manager has a preferred system which is fine if it works.

Good managers and players know how to adapt to win games. Targeting the weakness of the opposition before and most importantly during games is key. We don't seem to do this.

[Guest]

Every manager has a preferred system which is fine if it works.

Good managers and players know how to adapt to win games. Targeting the weakness of the opposition before and most importantly during games is key. We don't seem to do this.

There's actually two approaches to this. A manager can look at the opposition, figure out their weakness, and try to capitalize on that. The second way is for the manager to look at the opposition, see their strengths and try to nullify them. I think SP definitely falls into the latter camp. Take Livingston for example. Every forum posting punter in the country knows that Yogi still uses his play book from his Celtic days, and sets up a team as he remembers it from back in the day..........goalie to defender, and try to pass your way up the park. The key is pressing them high up the pitch, and punish them for their inevitable mistakes.

So, Ayr did last season, Airdrie have done it this season, and Jeffries made it clear that's how he set up Dunfermline against them last Saturday. Did we do that? No we didn't. I would bet you anything that SP was too engrossed in trying to nullify their strengths that he never ever saw their weakness.......and that seems to be how he approaches every game.

Like many, i reckon SP is an absolutely first class bloke, and a man of great integrity. I also reckon he is profoundly stubborn, and could never accept that anything is fundamentally wrong with how he builds and deploys a football team. When we are beaten by a team sprinkled with better players, then that is completely acceptable. When we are being beaten regularly by teams that clearly don't have better players, and can get the better of us through nothing more than a bit of organisation (and over a prolonged period), then it is only right and fair to doubt the man's ability to do what it is that he is claiming to do.

[Shadwell Dog]

At the end of the day our budget is no less than the one Jackie McNamara has at Thistle and yet he's producing a team that are winning every week. Why are trhey getting a lot more bang for their buck than we are? They've managed to sign a number of up and coming scottish players plus adding the likes of Hugh Murray for experience. They've got a a really decent backbone to their team and they arent pissing money away on signings from down south. For example the boy Muirhead they signed from Annan is a very decent signing so why are we not looking at the lower leagues for players? All that and yet their still getting crowds of 500 less than us. Whose the chumps now??

[Disco Duck]

There's actually two approaches to this. A manager can look at the opposition, figure out their weakness, and try to capitalize on that. The second way is for the manager to look at the opposition, see their strengths and try to nullify them. I think SP definitely falls into the latter camp. Take Livingston for example. Every forum posting punter in the country knows that Yogi still uses his play book from his Celtic days, and sets up a team as he remembers it from back in the day..........goalie to defender, and try to pass your way up the park. The key is pressing them high up the pitch, and punish them for their inevitable mistakes.

So, Ayr did last season, Airdrie have done it this season, and Jeffries made it clear that's how he set up Dunfermline against them last Saturday. Did we do that? No we didn't. I would bet you anything that SP was too engrossed in trying to nullify their strengths that he never ever saw their weakness.......and that seems to be how he approaches every game.

Like many, i reckon SP is an absolutely first class bloke, and a man of great integrity. I also reckon he is profoundly stubborn, and could never accept that anything is fundamentally wrong with how he builds and deploys a football team. When we are beaten by a team sprinkled with better players, then that is completely acceptable. When we are being beaten regularly by teams that clearly don't have better players, and can get the better of us through nothing more than a bit of organisation (and over a prolonged period), then it is only right and fair to doubt the man's ability to do what it is that he is claiming to do.

Excellent post, agree with every word. Red dot was fat fingers at play, meant to give you a greenie.

[Hannibal Lecturer]

why are we not looking at the lower leagues for players?

Jordan White and Ryan McGeever come to mind.

[welshbairn]

There's actually two approaches to this. A manager can look at the opposition, figure out their weakness, and try to capitalize on that. The second way is for the manager to look at the opposition, see their strengths and try to nullify them. I think SP definitely falls into the latter camp. Take Livingston for example. Every forum posting punter in the country knows that Yogi still uses his play book from his Celtic days, and sets up a team as he remembers it from back in the day..........goalie to defender, and try to pass your way up the park. The key is pressing them high up the pitch, and punish them for their inevitable mistakes.

So, Ayr did last season, Airdrie have done it this season, and Jeffries made it clear that's how he set up Dunfermline against them last Saturday. Did we do that? No we didn't. I would bet you anything that SP was too engrossed in trying to nullify their strengths that he never ever saw their weakness.......and that seems to be how he approaches every game.

Like many, i reckon SP is an absolutely first class bloke, and a man of great integrity. I also reckon he is profoundly stubborn, and could never accept that anything is fundamentally wrong with how he builds and deploys a football team. When we are beaten by a team sprinkled with better players, then that is completely acceptable. When we are being beaten regularly by teams that clearly don't have better players, and can get the better of us through nothing more than a bit of organisation (and over a prolonged period), then it is only right and fair to doubt the man's ability to do what it is that he is claiming to do.

Nothing more to say really, after this post. Only that I've been consistently in favour in giving Elvis time to learn his trade after we made what I thought was a mistake in promoting him to replace May in the first place. For a spell last Autumn it looked like the gamble had paid off. Now, though, I think his time is up, and both he and the club would benefit from a fresh start, apart.

Edited September 26, 2012 by welshbairn

[Guest]

1348663549[/url]' post='6661016']

There's actually two approaches to this. A manager can look at the opposition, figure out their weakness, and try to capitalize on that. The second way is for the manager to look at the opposition, see their strengths and try to nullify them. I think SP definitely falls into the latter camp. Take Livingston for example. Every forum posting punter in the country knows that Yogi still uses his play book from his Celtic days, and sets up a team as he remembers it from back in the day..........goalie to defender, and try to pass your way up the park. The key is pressing them high up the pitch, and punish them for their inevitable mistakes.

So, Ayr did last season, Airdrie have done it this season, and Jeffries made it clear that's how he set up Dunfermline against them last Saturday. Did we do that? No we didn't. I would bet you anything that SP was too engrossed in trying to nullify their strengths that he never ever saw their weakness.......and that seems to be how he approaches every game.

Like many, i reckon SP is an absolutely first class bloke, and a man of great integrity. I also reckon he is profoundly stubborn, and could never accept that anything is fundamentally wrong with how he builds and deploys a football team. When we are beaten by a team sprinkled with better players, then that is completely acceptable. When we are being beaten regularly by teams that clearly don't have better players, and can get the better of us through nothing more than a bit of organisation (and over a prolonged period), then it is only right and fair to doubt the man's ability to do what it is that he is claiming to do.

You know what I was at Stirling on the Saturday before the Livingston game and SP went through how Livingston would play out from defence. I watched them practicing pressing the defence high up the pitch and then watched on the Sunday if they carried that out. In the first ten minutes or so the players carried it out to the letter, in fact Alston knicked the ball high up the pitch in that period.

For some reason that stopped but I can assure you that SP set them up to do exactly what you described.

[H_B]

Nothing more to say really, after this post. Only that I've been consistently in favour in giving Elvis time to learn his trade after we made what I thought was a mistake in promoting him to replace May in the first place. For a spell last Autumn it looked like the gamble had paid off. Now, though, I think his time is up, and both he and the club would benefit from a fresh start, apart.

I will resist the opportunity to say "I Told You So".

The problem with these fans evenings is that they serve no purpose at all. The one at the stadium was a prime example. The Bairnstrust rep at the time did a dreadful job, and seemed to have one agenda only - suppressing any questioning of the manager's position. It was as if what was happening on the park, and how dreadful a job Pressley was doing was the elephant in the room - and really an inconvenience.

Still, Ritchie was left in no doubt that Pressley had to be sacked in the summer. No doubt whatsoever. I was convinced not even Relegator Ritchie could f**k this one up.

And what happened? 3 or 4 weeks later, the useless clown was given a new contract.

At the stadium event, those brave enough to tell Ritchie that he blundered by appointing the clown and he had to go were met with antagonism from Ritchie and Tom Paterson, and a lot of shuffles of feet. Ritchie then took the conversation, no matter the question, off in the direction he wanted "Give Us Your Money - as much of it as possible as soon as possible"

18 months later, Falkirk fans are back in the same position, and it will be the same guys asking the same questions - "Why do we have such an incompetent manager? Why did you never learn the lessons from before?" and getting the same non answers.

There will be talk about disappointment at the start, cliches about working 25 hours a day to resolve things - "no one works harder than Steven..first in in the morning, last out at night" blah blah blah.

Even if the fans (again!) give the message loud and clear that the manger must go, MUST go, there will be smiles, grave expressions, then a sigh of relief in the car park from Mr White and co that they don't need to do this again for ages, and can go back to the club and report to Mr Ritchie that perhaps a new contract could be worked out for Pressley in October.

[welshbairn]

I will resist the opportunity to say "I Told You So".

Every manager has his sell by date at a club. You had to be right eventually, considering you couldn't stand him before he even joined Falkirk.

For me it was worth keeping him for the entertainment of last Autumn alone.

Edited September 26, 2012 by welshbairn

[H_B]

Every manager has his sell by date at a club. You had to be right eventually, considering you couldn't stand him before he even joined Falkirk.

That's not true actually. I had no particular strong views on Pressley before he joined Falkirk. I wouldn't say I liked him, and I always thought it was telling that ex-pros said he was a dick. I thought he was awful for Falkirk as a player, but again, had he left with Eddie May, rather than stab him in the back, I wouldn't really have minded him.

And I've hardly been right "eventually". I was right within 4 months of him taking over. 1 goal from open play in 450 minutes of football to get the club relegated. I don't think he had any chance of coming back from that debacle to be honest. A really cowardly way to go down.

Funnily enough though, I'd still say he deserved the sack more 2 summers ago than now. At least now he has elements of last season to point to and be able to say "Look, I can do that".

I think your quote of a few months ago was that I didn't like it that Martin Ritchie had been proven absolutely right by sticking by Pressley, and I had been proven to be absolutely wrong. Do you still feel this way?

Actually - here it is. I think you timed it a bit badly.

"It's noticeable that the posters most outraged at the board are the ones who were angriest about Ritchie hiring and sticking with Pressley.. They're still furious that he was right, and they were wrong"

Edited September 26, 2012 by H_B

[welshbairn]

I think your quote of a few months ago was that I didn't like it that Martin Ritchie had been proven absolutely right by sticking by Pressley, and I had been proven to be absolutely wrong. Do you still feel this way?

Times change. If you had had a poll last January there would have been a big majority in favour of Ritchie and Elvis. If you had a poll now, you'd get the opposite. I still think Ritchie was right to stick with him after the decision was taken to promote him in the first place, it's pointless hiring a rookie if you don't give him time to prove himself. I also think he proved himself capable of being a good manager last season. But players moved away, others came in,and the team no longer looks capable or willing to playing the way he wants. Every manager is going to fail with a team at some time or other, it doesn't mean to say it's always a mistake to hire them in the first place.

[Marshmallo]

For me it was worth keeping him for the entertainment of last Autumn alone.

That's absolutely mental. Look at how far backwards we have gone under Pressley. The club is in a horrendous position which it will take years to recover from.

[H_B]

Every manager is going to fail with a team at some time or other, it doesn't mean to say it's always a mistake to hire them in the first place.

True, which is why you have to take their reign in totality to decide if they have been a success or failure.

Even the much maligned John Lambie actually had a good couple of weeks at one point in that relegation season, including as I recall when we thumped Partick 3-0 away and maybe, just manybe, we were going to survive.

A bad 6 months or even a season can be overcome if you have 2 good seasons following it.

There is absolutely no question that Pressley has been a monumental failure as a whole over the past what 30 odd months? His good months are absolutely swamped by the disasterous ones.

Ritchie was completely wrong to appoint him, even more wrong to beg him to stay that summer, and wrong to the power of 100 to give him a new contract the summer after. I'm sure he doesn't see it that way though - he is, after all, not a football man.

Edited September 26, 2012 by H_B

[H_B]

I think in terms of your "last January " question you can look at Hughes' reign.

Some people never forgave him for that Ochilview season, even 4 years later, no matter what he achieved. I thought that was pretty churlish. I never thought he was the man for the job from the start, and i didn't like his brand of football at times, but looking at his reign as a whole, it was a huge success. I'm glad the club appointed him.

Pressley had an awful lot of ground to make up following the debacles of his relegation season, and the awful Div One campaign that followed it. I think he needed two full seasons of good performances and results to win people over and make them eat their words.

He produced, what 4 months? 5 maybe? then it was back to dross post Xmas, which hasn't eased up by the sounds of it this season either.

[welshbairn]

That's absolutely mental. Look at how far backwards we have gone under Pressley. The club is in a horrendous position which it will take years to recover from.

I don't think our decline is solely, or even principally down to Pressley. The financial armageddon kicked off before he was even hired as assistant. To play the kind of football we watched last Autumn you need 4 or 5 exceptional players. He lost them, the core of the team, between the winter window and the summer. The replacements are proving slow or unable to adapt to the style of play. The rest of the team seem incapable of taking over the roles of the players who left. He might yet turn it around, and quickly, but I doubt it. We need a manager who can adapt a strategy to the strengths of his players. That's why I think it's time for him to go, for our sake, and his own. I don't see why it should take years to recover.

P.s. If we had held on to Higgy we would

have probably been in the SPL this season, maybe with the players needed to compete.

Edited September 26, 2012 by welshbairn

[KiwiDB]

You know what I was at Stirling on the Saturday before the Livingston game and SP went through how Livingston would play out from defence. I watched them practicing pressing the defence high up the pitch and then watched on the Sunday if they carried that out. In the first ten minutes or so the players carried it out to the letter, in fact Alston knicked the ball high up the pitch in that period.

For some reason that stopped but I can assure you that SP set them up to do exactly what you described.

I think that comes back to the lack of leadership on the pitch, you've got Dods and maybe McGovern but that's about it.

Players like Duffie, Murdoch, Flynn and now Higgins have all been around at this level for a bit now and should be helping to provide some of the leadership but for whatever reason aren't.