The Arbroath Thread

[Lichtielegend]

I don't recall one board member coming out to refute the spitting allegations (or even acknowledge them). The staff member who posted regarding death threats should be held to account too. Interesting to note that, apparently, on that trip home from Wales, the non-playing staff were more concerned about getting a day on the sauce rather than the actual football to the extent that senior players were having to tell them off! 

However, they seem to be quick off the mark to respond to criticism of themselves and I've certainly heard of a few people getting phone calls harassing them over comments made on social media.

Let's be honest, a lot of this criticism is justified and it's hard to ignore that a lot of people who have been committed to the club for years are suddenly leaving. Graham Black is away, hearing rumours that Booner is away and there was certainly a lot of different faces working in the hospitality last time I was there.

Something has definitely happened at the club in the last few years and it was likely missed at the time because we were doing so well on the pitch.

 

 

[mo83]

Jeezo this is some read lads!

And we were led to believe Arbroath were the best run part time club clearly not the case here.

[ExiledLichtie]

2 hours ago, Lichtielegend said:

Something has definitely happened at the club in the last few years and it was likely missed at the time because we were doing so well on the pitch.

There's no great mystery.  We're a bigger club.  There are increased demands for professionalism, time, and output on the club now.  Its harder to ask fans just to volunteer for a couple of hours.

[1320Lichtie]

7 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

There's no great mystery.  We're a bigger club.  There are increased demands for professionalism, time, and output on the club now.  Its harder to ask fans just to volunteer for a couple of hours.

As far as I’m aware, for example, the social media just changed this year, what’s the difference between last year and this year? The paid guy is a roaster who makes up stuff and does a worse job than the guy in it before him - but he’s Paul Reid’s mate… 

 

The groundsman next up, what’s the difference in the role for the Groundsman from now until next year?

There are other things there too that I don’t really want to get into because it’s not fair on the people in the jobs it’s not their fault and it’s not really fair on them but surely going down a league where there’ll be a lot less cash coming into the club means there is a lot that’s happened in recent seasons that really needs looked at and revisited

 

If things were required to change for the reasons you have stated I’d be all for it by the way but I don’t believe they had to and if they’re wanting fans to fund these people because we’re getting relegated…. No thanks

Edited March 25 by 1320Lichtie

[Tattie36]

10 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

There's no great mystery.  We're a bigger club.  There are increased demands for professionalism, time, and output on the club now.  It’s harder to ask fans just to volunteer for a couple of hours.

Volunteers are the lifeblood of not just small semi-pro football clubs but also non league, amateur, boys/girls clubs, school football etc not to mention other sports, organisations and clubs. Alienate them and you create bad feeling and take away a huge resource. Without them many…. Actually probably all of these aforementioned organisations would likely cease to exist and many have for exactly this reason.

[1320Lichtie]

Also on this ‘professionalism’ 

 

Can anyone think what kind of First Team Analysis is being provided by the guy who doesn’t know the difference between Stevie May and Cillian Sheridan

 

Obviously lacks the basic ability of reading a team sheet so what kind of analysis is he providing for our first team? It’s laughable 

Eta - also how professional is it to be posting on this forum and making up lies about former AFC employees when you are in the role of social media manager and doing the clubs First Team Analysis - this ‘professionalism’ thing is definitely not the case 

 

Edited March 25 by 1320Lichtie

[ExiledLichtie]

24 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

Volunteers are the lifeblood of not just small semi-pro football clubs but also non league, amateur, boys/girls clubs, school football etc not to mention other sports, organisations and clubs. Alienate them and you create bad feeling and take away a huge resource. Without them many…. Actually probably all of these aforementioned organisations would likely cease to exist and many have for exactly this reason.

I completely agree with you.  But it is what it is. I'm not defending the socials here, I also think they have been notably worse this season, but the role of our socials has changed in the last 2 years.  People don't just expect the occasional post and some match updates any more, they want a lot more.  

There is merch to push, corporate events to advertise, match day updates, fans expect things like injury updates, interviews, "on this day", all that sort of stuff.  Last season some of our fans were quite annoyed about our socials.  Its asking a hell of a lot more of volunteers.  Its not a wee side hobby, its a job!

The same applies to other roles.  Bigger crowds, more sponsors, full time players, higher league, it all requires more admin and more time commitment from volunteers.  

Sadly, it is what it is. 

 

Edited to add, you want a club with volunteers and a spirit of togetherness, you want a smaller club.  Personally, that wouldn't bother me at all.  I'm not one of those calling for us to go full time.  I don't really mind what league we play in! 

Edited March 25 by ExiledLichtie

[1320Lichtie]

13 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

I completely agree with you.  But it is what it is. I'm not defending the socials here, I also think they have been notably worse this season, but the role of our socials has changed in the last 2 years.  People don't just expect the occasional post and some match updates any more, they want a lot more.  

There is merch to push, corporate events to advertise, match day updates, fans expect things like injury updates, interviews, "on this day", all that sort of stuff.  Last season some of our fans were quite annoyed about our socials.  Its asking a hell of a lot more of volunteers.  Its not a wee side hobby, its a job!

The same applies to other roles.  Bigger crowds, more sponsors, full time players, higher league, it all requires more admin and more time commitment from volunteers.  

Sadly, it is what it is.  

I cannot remember this. The main complaints were about silly things like there being too much holiday photos or whatever. 

 

The actual overall output was very good and it didn’t need to change - the on this day stuff is a separate thing @SimonLichtiedoes through the Arbroath Archive too.

 

If we are paying someone to do a worse job than the person before them, who was a fan and volunteer and mainstay at the club, what is the logic in that? 
 

 

All of this without taking into account that the paid guy is a gobshite who makes stuff up online and is Paul Reid’s pal who has also somehow got another role doing First Team Analysis…

Edited March 25 by 1320Lichtie

[Tattie36]

12 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

I completely agree with you.  But it is what it is. I'm not defending the socials here, I also think they have been notably worse this season, but the role of our socials has changed in the last 2 years.  People don't just expect the occasional post and some match updates any more, they want a lot more.  

There is merch to push, corporate events to advertise, match day updates, fans expect things like injury updates, interviews, "on this day", all that sort of stuff.  Last season some of our fans were quite annoyed about our socials.  Its asking a hell of a lot more of volunteers.  Its not a wee side hobby, its a job!

The same applies to other roles.  Bigger crowds, more sponsors, full time players, higher league, it all requires more admin and more time commitment from volunteers.  

Sadly, it is what it is. 

 

Edited to add, you want a club with volunteers and a spirit of togetherness, you want a smaller club.  Personally, that wouldn't bother me at all.  I'm not one of those calling for us to go full time.  I don't really mind what league we play in! 

On the contrary, I think the bigger and more successful a club becomes then the more they should use volunteer resource alongside paid employees. Success and good feeling around a club encourages more people willing to give up some spare time to do what they can.

Personally I had been seriously thinking about volunteering some of my time and skills, fee of charge, to the club over the last few seasons but won’t in the current climate.

We have guys like Simon and Fraser Clyne as fans who collectively probably have more knowledge of Arbroath FC than anyone that’s ever lived. The club should be using these guys as much as possible, paid or not, as opposed to folk who likely know or care very little about the club.

[ExiledLichtie]

19 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

On the contrary, I think the bigger and more successful a club becomes then the more they should use volunteer resource alongside paid employees. Success and good feeling around a club encourages more people willing to give up some spare time to do what they can.

Personally I had been seriously thinking about volunteering some of my time and skills, fee of charge, to the club over the last few seasons but won’t in the current climate.

We have guys like Simon and Fraser Clyne as fans who collectively probably have more knowledge of Arbroath FC than anyone that’s ever lived. The club should be using these guys as much as possible, paid or not, as opposed to folk who likely know or care very little about the club.

Again, I completely agree with you in principle.  However, Graham back in the summer, when defending himself from criticism from the fans over last season's social media output, pointed out that on a quiet week, he put 10-15 hours in, but when there were matches etc. he could find himself putting in up to 60 hours a week.  Its a lot to ask from volunteers.  Similarly, having a larger season ticket base means more office staff, more stewarding, more catering stalls, more clean up post match, more of everything.  Its  presumably why we have a mix of the stewards who have been there for decades, and the rocksteady hired fannies.  We're a lot bigger than we were.  If we were to go full time, those players are going to need looking after.  More volunteers for that too?

As I said though, I'm on your side.  I think the club should focus more on volunteers and fans, and I'd choose that over us being a "bigger" or more professional club.    

 

Edited just to be absolutely clear - I think our socials have been really poor, and if we're paying someone to do it, we should replace them.  They've had a window, and while its been a difficult time for the club, they've had half a season now, and I don't think they have shown enough to be given the start of the new season.  Better to get a fresh face in next season.

Edited March 25 by ExiledLichtie

[SmokeyJoe]

6 minutes ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Again, I completely agree with you in principle.  However, Graham back in the summer, when defending himself from criticism from the fans over last season's social media output, pointed out that on a quiet week, he put 10-15 hours in, but when there were matches etc. he could find himself putting in up to 60 hours a week.  Its a lot to ask from volunteers.  Similarly, having a larger season ticket base means more office staff, more stewarding, more catering stalls, more clean up post match, more of everything.  Its  presumably why we have a mix of the stewards who have been there for decades, and the rocksteady hired fannies.  We're a lot bigger than we were.  If we were to go full time, those players are going to need looking after.  More volunteers for that too?

As I said though, I'm on your side.  I think the club should focus more on volunteers and fans, and I'd choose that over us being a "bigger" or more professional club.    

We’ve just employed folk in full time positions I believe and we are away to get relegated probably resulting in lower financial income, ST sales and match day attendances. 

how’s the financially sensible? Few folks pals will and have got jobs out and not just Paul Reid’s. Losing some really good people from the club that probably wouldn’t want to come back after the way they’ve been treated. 
 

like I said before I’m all for positive changes but these aren’t. 

[Lichtielegend]

1 hour ago, ExiledLichtie said:

There's no great mystery.  We're a bigger club.  There are increased demands for professionalism, time, and output on the club now.  Its harder to ask fans just to volunteer for a couple of hours.

Are we a better club though?

The irony is that the impending relegation is going to cut our prize money by at least 50k next season. We'll probably lose approx 500 fans from our attendances, maybe more when you factor in that away attendances will be decimated.

500 fans at approx £15 per ticket average equates to approx £130k over the league season and probably more in hospo receipts (less expenses for policing, tbf)

That's £180k out of the wage budget and it's going to kick off if it's the playing budget that takes the brunt of the hit over some crappy social media posts.

[Tattie36]

7 minutes ago, Lichtielegend said:

Are we a better club though?

The irony is that the impending relegation is going to cut our prize money by at least 50k next season. We'll probably lose approx 500 fans from our attendances, maybe more when you factor in that away attendances will be decimated.

500 fans at approx £15 per ticket average equates to approx £130k over the league season and probably more in hospo receipts (less expenses for policing, tbf)

That's £180k out of the wage budget and it's going to kick off if it's the playing budget that takes the brunt of the hit over some crappy social media posts.

And the rest. On top of all of that, there will be no tv money from the Friday night games, reduced catering sales, reduced merch sales (will the shop stay open?), reduced sponsorships etc even down to local pubs, restaurants and businesses seeing a hit on takings due to reduced number of visiting fans.

We will maybe be able to be run in a similar fashion as now for perhaps a season but unless we go straight back up then things will need to be massively scale back in future.

[ExiledLichtie]

22 minutes ago, Lichtielegend said:

Are we a better club though?

The irony is that the impending relegation is going to cut our prize money by at least 50k next season. We'll probably lose approx 500 fans from our attendances, maybe more when you factor in that away attendances will be decimated.

500 fans at approx £15 per ticket average equates to approx £130k over the league season and probably more in hospo receipts (less expenses for policing, tbf)

That's £180k out of the wage budget and it's going to kick off if it's the playing budget that takes the brunt of the hit over some crappy social media posts.

Agreed.

[RedLichtie86]

I think everyone needs to take a step back, take a breath and chill out. I get people are venting but c'mon tae f**k. It's getting silly now. The thread is tinfoil hat territory these days.

When everything was going good, barely any moaning about the stuff going on in the background even when it wasnt quite right.

Past 2 years things have gotten worse on the pitch and folk are looking at fault in everything. Accusations here, moans there, flat out conspiracy nonsense too. Its like mass hysteria. I get we are all frustrated but sometimes its best to take a step back before going 2 footed into this forum. 

From "Noubles Mates" now to "Paul Reids mates" its becoming farcical with the notion that somehow we have some sort of dodgy dealings going on in the background. Or that being relegated we will be in a complete financial mess with all these new backroom members. Of course we will have less income and will have to scale things back but I have no doubt the club will budgeted for that and kept plenty of cash in reserve. The club is in its best ever position off the field in regard to revenue generation with expanded hospitality, merchandise, Season Ticket sales, sponsorship and a generation of young fans.

We will take a hit from the drop in ticket sales, prizemoney, etc from being in a lower league but nowhere near to the point of mass layoffs and backroom restructuring.

[1320Lichtie]

2 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

I think everyone needs to take a step back, take a breath and chill out. I get people are venting but c'mon tae f**k. It's getting silly now. The thread is tinfoil hat territory these days.

When everything was going good, barely any moaning about the stuff going on in the background even when it wasnt quite right.

Past 2 years things have gotten worse on the pitch and folk are looking at fault in everything. Accusations here, moans there, flat out conspiracy nonsense too. Its like mass hysteria. I get we are all frustrated but sometimes its best to take a step back before going 2 footed into this forum. 

From "Noubles Mates" now to "Paul Reids mates" its becoming farcical with the notion that somehow we have some sort of dodgy dealings going on in the background. Or that being relegated we will be in a complete financial mess with all these new backroom members. Of course we will have less income and will have to scale things back but I have no doubt the club will budgeted for that and kept plenty of cash in reserve. The club is in its best ever position off the field in regard to revenue generation with expanded hospitality, merchandise, Season Ticket sales, sponsorship and a generation of young fans.

We will take a hit from the drop in ticket sales, prizemoney, etc from being in a lower league but nowhere near to the point of mass layoffs and backroom restructuring.

Can you point out the ‘flat out conspiracy nonsense’  please?

[lichtie23]

Il try to lift the mood here. What away days are everyone looking forward too next season? I really want Annan to stay up as they have a cracking social club. Kelty will be a new ground ticked off for me as well 

[ExiledLichtie]

1 minute ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Can you point out the ‘flat out conspiracy nonsense’  please?

The idea that we had full time players so that one of our board members could fund the development of the meadowbank houses through short term lets?  That was a good one!

[1320Lichtie]

1 minute ago, ExiledLichtie said:

The idea that we had full time players so that one of our board members could fund the development of the meadowbank houses through short term lets?  That was a good one!

I’ve never heard anything about any Meadowbank houses on here I must’ve missed that one

 

I mean in regards to the discussion that’s been going on since Saturday

 

These are surely real issues that need seriously looked at going forward no?

[keptie]

3 minutes ago, lichtie23 said:

Il try to lift the mood here. What away days are everyone looking forward too next season? I really want Annan to stay up as they have a cracking social club. Kelty will be a new ground ticked off for me as well 

Glad someone else isn't on the verge of a  mental breakdown on here, talk about about a hard read.... Yes been a while since we visited a lot of these grounds, it'll be fun.