The Queen of the South thread

[Broony88]

25 minutes ago, Flash said:

Is the prize money for losing quarter finalists not £50k? Thought I read that on here somehwhere. But it may not be correct even if I did, of course.

http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Global/Issues/2016/07/26/Finance/Betfred-Cup-prize-money.aspx

 

doesn't tell you round by round but gives you an idea with the tv money.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Broony88

[Skyline Drifter]

36 minutes ago, KingfaetheSooth said:

 Imagine that policing and stewarding expenses are very high at Mordor. Unlikely to be a really big crowd either with so many games around this time of year. I imagine if we clear six figures we'll be doing well. Not to be sneezed at, right enough. 

Not our problem what the policing and stewarding expenses are though. Their League Cup attendances so far have been 31,628 v Annan on a Tuesday night, 29,575 v Stranraer on a Monday (live on BT) and 27,076 v Peterhead on a Tuesday. I'd imagine it will be something in the high 20,000's or so.

18 minutes ago, Flash said:

Is the prize money for losing quarter finalists not £50k? Thought I read that on here somehwhere. But it may not be correct even if I did, of course.

Well yes it is, but we earned that by beating Airdrie, Queens Park, Stenhousemuir and HIbs, not for playing anybody in this round. It's not relevant in terms of comparing opposition. And if you are including that then clearly we'd make more than £50k from a game against Morton. I don't think he was including prize money in his numbers. A game between ourselves and Morton clearly would not be picked for tv.

[Besty]

1 hour ago, die hard doonhamer said:

Semis are at a neutral venue.

Even better ha

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Sloop John B said:

Wanting Rangers because It's a good payday is such a depressing reason when it's  a quarter final of a national cup competition for which we haven't even made the semis  since 1960/61 let alone win the thing,

Isn't it just?

Of course if we were to beat Rangers, the payday from a big crowd would be a bonus, so I suppose that by that logic, I better concede that it'll be a consolation if we lose.

Either way though it's so secondary to what's actually at stake at this stage of the competition, as to be barely relevant.

So many seem to have been seduced by the crap about the EPL play-off final being the richest game in football, or the apparent Scottish reliance on OF crumbs, that they end up getting it all the wrong way round.

It is actually quite depressing.

[KingfaetheSooth]

3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Not our problem what the policing and stewarding expenses are though. Their League Cup attendances so far have been 31,628 v Annan on a Tuesday night, 29,575 v Stranraer on a Monday (live on BT) and 27,076 v Peterhead on a Tuesday. I'd imagine it will be something in the high 20,000's or so.

Surprised that the likes of policing and stewarding costs are not deducted before the money is shared.  Are these costs just absorbed by the home club then? 

Agree on attendance, though it may be over 30K with it being after the main holiday season. Might be more money to the club than I initially thought then.

Agree with others on here, that it is depressing that we are even contemplating the money to be made and not the likelihood of winning the competition. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by KingfaetheSooth

[Skyline Drifter]

1 minute ago, KingfaetheSooth said:

Surprised that the likes of policing and stewarding costs are not deducted before the money is shared.  Are these costs just absorbed by the home club then? 

The home club gets to keep 15% for expenses. If the expenses are cheaper than that they are quids in. If more expensive that's their look out. Remaining 85% is split 50/50 (after VAT). So no, they aren't absorbed, but the specific costs aren't directly relevant to us, it's formula based.

[Guest Flash]

Would have preferred a winnable tie such as Livingston or Morton at home or Dumbarton away.

[Tam]

4 hours ago, Sloop John B said:

Wanting Rangers because It's a good payday is such a depressing reason when it's  a quarter final of a national cup competition for which we haven't even made the semis  since 1960/61 let alone win the thing,

What I found depressing was travelling down from Edinburgh, after Queens had made it to the first Scottish Cup final in the club's history, to show my appreciation and support only to walk into a feeble Palmerston crowd. That was depressing. I don't think going to Ibrox - where we have won before - is depressing exactly.

I like seeing Queens play in big grounds against the biggest clubs. I certainly don't see what's wrong about wanting to make dosh out of a cup-tie either. It's pretty unlikely we are going to draw Alloa and meet Morton ( no disrespect intended) in the final. Some people would have taken another team from our league and hoped to progress - OK ; but the likelihood is you are going to run into the biggest and wealthiest before you make the final anyway.

[Monkey Tennis]

44 minutes ago, Tam said:

What I found depressing was travelling down from Edinburgh, after Queens had made it to the first Scottish Cup final in the club's history, to show my appreciation and support only to walk into a feeble Palmerston crowd. That was depressing. I don't think going to Ibrox - where we have won before - is depressing exactly.

I like seeing Queens play in big grounds against the biggest clubs. I certainly don't see what's wrong about wanting to make dosh out of a cup-tie either. It's pretty unlikely we are going to draw Alloa and meet Morton ( no disrespect intended) in the final. Some people would have taken another team from our league and hoped to progress - OK ; but the likelihood is you are going to run into the biggest and wealthiest before you make the final anyway.

That feeble Palmerston crowd owed plenty to an OF game on Setanta the same night as I recall.  As you say, bloody depressing.

Yes, to get far in a Cup, you're likely to have to get by bigger clubs, but we've already done that once and it would have been nice not to have to play away at one of the very biggest, especially one for whom there is no novelty attached to facing.

Reaching a neutral semi-final would be a huge occasion for us, but that's become less likely than it might have been.

I've not given up on us going further in this, but there can be little doubt that given the various other possibilities, this was a poor draw for us.

 

[Broony88]

1 hour ago, Tam said:

What I found depressing was travelling down from Edinburgh, after Queens had made it to the first Scottish Cup final in the club's history, to show my appreciation and support only to walk into a feeble Palmerston crowd. That was depressing. I don't think going to Ibrox - where we have won before - is depressing exactly.

I like seeing Queens play in big grounds against the biggest clubs. I certainly don't see what's wrong about wanting to make dosh out of a cup-tie either. It's pretty unlikely we are going to draw Alloa and meet Morton ( no disrespect intended) in the final. Some people would have taken another team from our league and hoped to progress - OK ; but the likelihood is you are going to run into the biggest and wealthiest before you make the final anyway.

We have already made a tidyish sum from the run so far and I like most would have preferred a good chance of progression and a little bit more money over a decent lump sum but very little chance of making the semis. 

[Ira Gaines]

2 hours ago, Tam said:

What I found depressing was travelling down from Edinburgh, after Queens had made it to the first Scottish Cup final in the club's history, to show my appreciation and support only to walk into a feeble Palmerston crowd. That was depressing. I don't think going to Ibrox - where we have won before - is depressing exactly.

I like seeing Queens play in big grounds against the biggest clubs. I certainly don't see what's wrong about wanting to make dosh out of a cup-tie either. It's pretty unlikely we are going to draw Alloa and meet Morton ( no disrespect intended) in the final. Some people would have taken another team from our league and hoped to progress - OK ; but the likelihood is you are going to run into the biggest and wealthiest before you make the final anyway.

With the way the draw and cup has gone, there was a decent chance you wouldn't need to run into one of the biggest until the final. At this stage of a cup, the priority should always be the club progressing.

Given the choice between a cup semi final and a potential ramming, I know which I'd pick.

[queenslad]

Progression on Tuesday night may allow the board to release some funds for an additional player knowing there is some unaccounted for income still to come. As they all say cup runs (or lack of them last season) aren't factored into expenses for a season when working out costs. I'm sure if we had not progressed out of the section then Dobbie would not have been signed. The extra income is welcome

[QosLoyal]

Progression on Tuesday night may allow the board to release some funds for an additional player knowing there is some unaccounted for income still to come. As they all say cup runs (or lack of them last season) aren't factored into expenses for a season when working out costs. I'm sure if we had not progressed out of the section then Dobbie would not have been signed. The extra income is welcome

I think the board would have signed dobbie regardless tbf. But now they can use the money to perhaps get in another player or two. Got to say though wouldnt mind brotherston getting in to the team. Boy looks decent.

[Northfield 53]

7 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Not our problem what the policing and stewarding expenses are though. Their League Cup attendances so far have been 31,628 v Annan on a Tuesday night, 29,575 v Stranraer on a Monday (live on BT) and 27,076 v Peterhead on a Tuesday. I'd imagine it will be something in the high 20,000's or so.

Well yes it is, but we earned that by beating Airdrie, Queens Park, Stenhousemuir and HIbs, not for playing anybody in this round. It's not relevant in terms of comparing opposition. And if you are including that then clearly we'd make more than £50k from a game against Morton. I don't think he was including prize money in his numbers. A game between ourselves and Morton clearly would not be picked for tv.

Money gets us better players.

Wonder if we would have signed DOBBIE if we had got knocked out of the Cup early on..

Cup money is very important to a club the size of Queens.

How much do we get for a live T.V. game ? 

Attendance 25,000 -30,000 live TV. will  Queens make over £100,000 from the game plus prize money make close to £ 200,000 from the Betfred Cup ?

[Doonhamer doon south]

The cup draw is never going to please everyone. Some people would of wanted Celtic instead of rangers. Some people would of wanted Morton or alloa. Others wanted mother well or whoever.

For me and it was one of the old firm. I would get to see queens on the telly the club would get some decent money and if we win and progress then we will have the glory of knocking out a big club.

As I said in earlier post look at the silver lining. If you don't want to go to the game then at least it on the tv. Everyone one who supports our club wants to progress. People just prefer different routes. Each to there own.

[Monkey Tennis]

41 minutes ago, Northfield 53 said:

Money gets us better players.

Wonder if we would have signed DOBBIE if we had got knocked out of the Cup early on..

Cup money is very important to a club the size of Queens.

How much do we get for a live T.V. game ? 

Attendance 25,000 -30,000 live TV. will  Queens make over £100,000 from the game plus prize money make close to £ 200,000 from the Betfred Cup ?

But what are the money, or the additional players actually for?

It's to give us a chance of glory on the field.  Otherwise, what is the bloody point?

Jeez.

[Rjc-1988]

4 hours ago, Tam said:

What I found depressing was travelling down from Edinburgh, after Queens had made it to the first Scottish Cup final in the club's history, to show my appreciation and support only to walk into a feeble Palmerston crowd. That was depressing. I don't think going to Ibrox - where we have won before - is depressing exactly.

I like seeing Queens play in big grounds against the biggest clubs. I certainly don't see what's wrong about wanting to make dosh out of a cup-tie either. It's pretty unlikely we are going to draw Alloa and meet Morton ( no disrespect intended) in the final. Some people would have taken another team from our league and hoped to progress - OK ; but the likelihood is you are going to run into the biggest and wealthiest before you make the final anyway.

I agree fully with your comments. I find it astonishing to read some of the earlier negativity about the draw. I can think of several draw permutations that are significantly worse than this one - Aberdeen away, St Johnstone home or away, Dundee United home or away, Alloa away, Morton away. In the 70s I remember us getting the "ideal" Quarter Final draw against Forfar in a two legged affair and contriving to go out with no financial upside and a feeling of complete and utter dejection at a squandered opportunity.

Yes we have played Rangers a lot over the past couple of seasons but we have actually delivered some tremendous results and performances in that period - so why should this be a write off and a game not worth attending? Getting to the QFs of any National Cup Comp is a big deal for a club of our size and while we will be big underdogs we have a chance and we have a big financial upside. Remember also we got Falkirk at home in a recent Scottish Cup QF at home and could not take advantage of a very favourable draw.

I would strongly suspect that a Queens minded person or persons will almost certainly have"put their hand in pocket" to support the Dobbie deal in some shape or form - accordingly the club desperately needs to balance the desire to try and get to the latter stages of competitions with the need to maximise our income levels.

Have I missed something about the recent trips to Ibrox - a penalty shoot out win in Challenge Cup - a number of close defeats where we have led at one point or another and a couple of 1-1 draws one of which was a Second Leg Play off match in front of 50,000 and live tv. Give me that compared to a trip to Alloa in front of 700 fans and a good chance that we might still go out.

 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, Rjc-1988 said:

I agree fully with your comments. I find it astonishing to read some of the earlier negativity about the draw. I can think of several draw permutations that are significantly worse than this one - Aberdeen away, St Johnstone home or away, Dundee United home or away, Alloa away, Morton away. In the 70s I remember us getting the "ideal" Quarter Final draw against Forfar in a two legged affair and contriving to go out with no financial upside and a feeling of complete and utter dejection at a squandered opportunity.

Yes we have played Rangers a lot over the past couple of seasons but we have actually delivered some tremendous results and performances in that period - so why should this be a write off and a game not worth attending? Getting to the QFs of any National Cup Comp is a big deal for a club of our size and while we will be big underdogs we have a chance and we have a big financial upside. Remember also we got Falkirk at home in a recent Scottish Cup QF at home and could not take advantage of a very favourable draw.

I would strongly suspect that a Queens minded person or persons will almost certainly have"put their hand in pocket" to support the Dobbie deal in some shape or form - accordingly the club desperately needs to balance the desire to try and get to the latter stages of competitions with the need to maximise our income levels.

Have I missed something about the recent trips to Ibrox - a penalty shoot out win in Challenge Cup - a number of close defeats where we have led at one point or another and a couple of 1-1 draws one of which was a Second Leg Play off match in front of 50,000 and live tv. Give me that compared to a trip to Alloa in front of 700 fans and a good chance that we might still go out.

 

 

I disagree with you on most of the potential "worse draws" you identify.

I think that either Dundee United or St Johnstone at home would be hugely preferable.

Of course there are no guarantees that we'll lose at Ibrox, just as there would be none that we'd triumph over Alloa at Palmerston.

We're all capable of dealing with probability though and that's why this doesn't feel like a very good draw.

[Besty]

13 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I disagree with you on most of the potential "worse draws" you identify.

I think that either Dundee United or St Johnstone at home would be hugely preferable.

Of course there are no guarantees that we'll lose at Ibrox, just as there would be none that we'd triumph over Alloa at Palmerston.

We're all capable of dealing with probability though and that's why this doesn't feel like a very good draw.

I'm not sure why there's a discussion about the draw, after Tuesday's first half ,I honestly doubted we would be in it.

Let's just enjoy the fact that we  have  the chance of both progressing and making what could be a substantial amount of money , Hibs would swap us I'm sure.

[Rjc-1988]

If we are dealing only with probability of getting through then of course we could have had a much better draw - but my view is that we have to balance probability of winning with financial reward. If this was the Rangers team of old with Gazza, Laudrup, Gough etc then it would be close to a complete and utter write off but are this Rangers team really materially better than St Johnstone, Aberdeen or even Hibs who we knocked out? The name Rangers still conjours up this feeling of invincibility with the media but if we have our best team fit and available and more importantly if the players believe that they can go through - it is not mission impossible. 

You may be right that the home draws that you mention might be better but I cant understand the comments that there will only be about 100 away supporters wanting to go to this game on basis that we have played Rangers a lot recently, Ibrox is a hell hole to visit and it is more or less a lost cause. I have been following Queens long enough to know that when we get the dream draw and become decent favourites that is the time to start worrying.