The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Scottydog]

A defeat at Airdrie and I think the board will either tell Smith he's done, or tell him he has one last chance against Forfar.

It's true Smith has a very limited squad but there still are enough decent players in it, sadly he clearly isn't getting the best from them . Last season we came very close but when it came to the crunch he bottled it and as a result so did his team.  The longer he's there the longer we will continue to pootle along either just scraping by or just missing out and we will continue to say "we nearly made it". With that said the truth of the matter is that I hope the board are already talking to someone else just now because Baz aint the long term answer.  I'm sorry to say it but I think it's inevitable and as such I would prefer he went sooner rather than later so we can at least give the new guy a decent shot at catching the pack before they have a chance to get too many points away from us.

Edited to add,

I just can't see Smith suddenly turning this team into a consistant , confident  all conquering force. The personnel may have altered but the tactics (or lack there of) and drive and enthusiasm remain the same as we were watching all too often last term.  You saw when the goals went in against Stenny and Aberdeen how much confidence plays a part to these guys, under Smith the team has always looked far from confident .....at least until they are a goal or two up.  McGlynn used to say that you shouldn't need to gee players up for cup ties and derbies, but as a squad did we look up for it yesterday?

Edited August 19, 2018 by Scottydog

[Scary Bear]

I think the Board probably recognise that we have a small and limited squad. They’ve stuck with Barry so I think it would take more than one early season away defeat for them to think about sacking Barry Smith.

If they did get rid, they’d have to continue paying Barry, recruit and pay a new manager and hope that results improve under the new guy, albeit with the same small squad.

Seems a fairly high risk plan.

[Michael W]

He should've been binned at the end of last season, but wasn't. 

Don't see why the board would let him build the squad and then can him a few games into the season, unfortunately. 

[Paco]

I’m not sure sacking Smith is on the agenda soon unless the results have us looking like Dunfermline that season they finished 7th in this league. No point keeping him in the summer, letting him spend the budget and sacking him after three matches.

Not seeing anything to suggest that was the right decision at this stage though.

5 points from 9 isn’t catastrophic but we’ve played three of the poorer sides in the league so far. Our next three away games are Airdrie, Brechin and Dumbarton. Let’s see how we do there, and if we fail to win any then it’s into a home match with Arbroath to finish Q1, with two weeks before the next league match...

[CALDERON]

26 minutes ago, Paco said:

I’m not sure sacking Smith is on the agenda soon unless the results have us looking like Dunfermline that season they finished 7th in this league. No point keeping him in the summer, letting him spend the budget and sacking him after three matches.

Not seeing anything to suggest that was the right decision at this stage though.

5 points from 9 isn’t catastrophic but we’ve played three of the poorer sides in the league so far. Our next three away games are Airdrie, Brechin and Dumbarton. Let’s see how we do there, and if we fail to win any then it’s into a home match with Arbroath to finish Q1, with two weeks before the next league match...

Yeah, if we play like we did yesterday against the better sides in this league will be out of the race in no time. 

Sacking Smith and paying his wages whilst finding a replacement is high risk. Nothing compared to being in this league again next season. 

[Nairney]

10 hours ago, CALDERON said:

Buchanan is trying very hard, of that I have no doubt. 

He just looks like a 32 year old whose best days are clearly behind him.  Not sharp enough and hasn't been since he signed.

I very much agree.

I mentioned, in the match thread, that he had "fluffed" the few chances we seemed to create, he was certainly putting the effort in.  How much of that effort not paying off is down to his ability and how much is down to opposition defending or Rovers setup / tactics? I don't know the answer but if the fault lies with our system then there's not much Buchanan will be able to do to improve his lot.

[RioRab]

14 hours ago, Rovers 1883 said:

No I’d call myself a realist based on the post like most fans I’d expect. Say what you see. Glass 50/50 kind of approach. Yourself? 

Have you left school yet?

[HIT THE CHANNEL]

Has anyone got any accurate info on Vaughan's injury and how many games until he is fit? We need him asap or we will be well off the pace. (Even though it's likely be well off it anyway due to Smith's horrific ineptitude.)

[Frank conner]

Any word on why Duggan wasn't even on the bench after coming on on wed?

[tigger]

Took a knock right at the end of the cup game.

[buchan30]

I very much agree.
I mentioned, in the match thread, that he had "fluffed" the few chances we seemed to create, he was certainly putting the effort in.  How much of that effort not paying off is down to his ability and how much is down to opposition defending or Rovers setup / tactics? I don't know the answer but if the fault lies with our system then there's not much Buchanan will be able to do to improve his lot.

I think you are right on all 3 points, he is trying hard to make it work. The other 2 points, its a bit of both. Thumping long balls into him doesnt help him. But when we got the ball into feet as well, he had 2 players surround him within seconds.

That was the other point i was going to make about gillespie looked frustrated yesterday, it seems our midfield want to play the ball on the deck, into feet. Whereas our defence cant wait to get rid of the ball and end up just wanting to hoof it.

[Broken Algorithms]

For me, it's similar to Spence last season. Both players were very much poachers for their teams the season before, and they were then thrust into a system with less creative midfielders, especially in the case of Buchanan. Having a keeper who shelled the ball long for 2/3 of the season also didn't help. 

4 minutes ago, buchan30 said:

 

I think you are right on all 3 points, he is trying hard to make it work. The other 2 points, its a bit of both. Thumping long balls into him doesnt help him. But when we got the ball into feet as well, he had 2 players surround him within seconds.

That was the other point i was going to make about gillespie looked frustrated yesterday, it seems our midfield want to play the ball on the deck, into feet. Whereas our defence cant wait to get rid of the ball and end up just wanting to hoof it.

 

I mentioned on the match thread that I was impressed with the willingness of Wedderburn to come back and collect the ball and run it out of defence. He'd rather take the time to do so as opposed to watching our keeper fire it long. Gillespie and Wedderburn both look solid in midfield, though I'd be far happier if we can get a fully fit team and run along the lines of a 4-2-3-1 with Gillespie and Wedderburn in holding roles, Flannigan and Vaughan on the wings cutting inside, Milne as an attacking midfielder and Nisbet up top trying to get in behind. 

The reality is we're all set for a 4-4-2 with Matthews looking lost as a winger. 

            

[lgb61]

I found it very frustrating game to watch, we played some great high tempo, quick passing football but only for very short spells and with no real end result. Again BS has given Buchanan an hour before bringing Milne on, if Milne is to get any kind of partnership with Nisbet then surely it has to be the other way round as clearly Buchanan's best days are behind him. East Fife's midfield supported their forwards faster and more efficiently than we did allowing them greater spells of pressure, Gillespie and Wedderburn need to work harder on that but Nat often sits too deep, I'd like to see him bombing into the box more, he is a big unit and frighten defences.

For a change, I wasn't in the South stand yesterday so maybe those of you that were can tell me why we were so shot shy, we had the ball in some good areas but perhaps they were closed down too quick?

I think in Nisbet and Flanagan could be two very good signings for us, Watson improves every game and McKay, Murray and Bene look solid enough but did struggle with organisation at times. As a right winger, Matthews brings nothing to the game, so I think he could easily go 3 at the back and play Watson on the wing instead with Matthews, Gillespie and Wedderburn in the middle, Flanagan on the left.

Another problem is still the front two, I don't know if Buchanan is carrying a knock but he looks done to me physically and mentally, he seems to have no passion or desire for the game. Time to start with Milne and Nisbet up front, see if they can form a partnership and give Buchanan 15-20 mins at the end  rather than the other way round.

There is certainly some potential in this squad, whether or not BS can get them to realise that is another matter. Somehow he has to calm them down, they look too nervous and lack composure for long periods.

Our 2nd pen wasn't a pen but it made up for the one we should've had earlier which was, there's was never a pen either never mind a yellow card, Agnews strike for their 2nd was excellent, no blame on Wright as he looked unsighted and why did we not have someone on the edge of the box anyway? Again,, lack of organisation.

Like I said, frustrating watch, I'll away and get my flame proof vest on now in readiness.

[Hank Scorpio]

Wedderburn’s willingness to collect the ball from the back line and then, more importantly, play a forward pass was pretty refreshing. Good range of passing, a few reverses and cross fields. Thought he did well. Cannae run, though.

[buchan30]

Livi fan at my work said buchanan is fine when he has things laid on a plate for him, but when hes made to make his own opportunities then that is where he struggles. As you say, lack of creativity from midfield means he is having to try and create something for himself. He seemed to be dropping deeper than nisbet at times yesterday.

[CALDERON]

Smiths out 

 

 

[ayrmad]

1 hour ago, CALDERON said:

Smiths out 

 

 

Big Mann's trimmed down a fair bit.

[renton]

I think there was some nice passages of play, particularly in the first half on Saturday. The problem was that it tended to break down around the 18 yard line, so having attacked reasonably well we failed to convert that play into either clear cut chances or even into a dead ball opportunity. In the second half EF were able to get the ball back quickly and to drive through big gaping holes in the middle of the park. All these issues are closely linked in my head.

Firstly, our second half issues fell under two categories: our inability to make the ball stick up front - something that became more acute after Buchanan went off. The second category being our inability to win the ball back in midfield once EF had it. In the first half, the break down of good play usually lay at the feet (literally) of Buchanan. As others have noted, he looks either bereft of confidence, or just done, generally. Yet our lack of options for change meant that once he went off, Milne - categorically not a centre forward - was unable to hold up play to any degree which resulted in EF being able to turnover play relatively quickly. It's an issue that should solve itself with time, as Duggan and Vaughan get fit, and we can have both a starter and replacement who can play as a centre forward even before we have to consider Buchanan. That should result in us being able to maintain pressure on the opposition, and to  create actual chances.

The second issue, particularly in the second half, was in the midfield. I don't share other posters glowing reviews of Wedderburn on Saturday.  While agreeing with them that his willingness to drive with the ball, to take it on the turn and play forward is a really positive attribute, he was also blowing out his arse by the hour mark, and his sloppy header before Agnew's second didn't help. Obviously that knock on Tuesday night was showing up because near the end EF players were ghosting past him like he wasn't there. On the other hand Gillespie's first time passing and wee touches really add a dimension to our play, but it can border on wreckless at times and occasionally taking a touch and slowing down play would've led to us having more control of the play. A secondary issue would be that EF, knowing all about Flanagan, doubled up on him time and again.

That all feels like it could be solved if budget were available to bring in a right sided wide player. Had we such a player available on Saturday, we could've replaced Wedderburn (or Gillepsie, depending on your taste) with Matthews, so that the middle of the park had a fresher pair of legs with a better engine, while at the same time adding an attacking outlet down that side that would have posed extra problems to EF, and allowed us to impose ourselves on the game. Perhaps Milne would be that guy were he not needed to replace the ailing Buchanan, who Smith obviously believes he needs to rest after a period, else he doesn't have two fit senior strikers for the week after. You could argue that Smith should've let Berry or Stevenson on (if you agree with the above analysis) but he obviously doesn't trust them to carry a game.

So yeah, I wanted Smith gone in the Summer and I'm still not sure he is the man for the job - yet I have to admit some of the football they've tried to play in the last couple of home games has taken me by surprise with how easy on the eye it is. We are clearly below strength however, both in terms of sidelined players and walking wounded. I think one more body - an attacking player out wide - would allow him enough flexibility now to get a better performance than we saw in the second half on Saturday, and that with Duggan and Vaughan back, we'd look a lot more dangerous. As it is, Airdrie looks a tough one, unless he decides to do away with two up top - because right now he doesn't have the resources to sustain that formation over 90 minutes.

[Stellaboz]

Wedderburn’s willingness to collect the ball from the back line and then, more importantly, play a forward pass was pretty refreshing. Good range of passing, a few reverses and cross fields. Thought he did well. Cannae run, though.

Yup, sums him up well. Get some pace and creativity around him and he'll be brilliant for you, especially in League One.

[GhostZapper]

2 hours ago, renton said:

I think there was some nice passages of play, particularly in the first half on Saturday. The problem was that it tended to break down around the 18 yard line, so having attacked reasonably well we failed to convert that play into either clear cut chances or even into a dead ball opportunity. In the second half EF were able to get the ball back quickly and to drive through big gaping holes in the middle of the park. All these issues are closely linked in my head.

Firstly, our second half issues fell under two categories: our inability to make the ball stick up front - something that became more acute after Buchanan went off. The second category being our inability to win the ball back in midfield once EF had it. In the first half, the break down of good play usually lay at the feet (literally) of Buchanan. As others have noted, he looks either bereft of confidence, or just done, generally. Yet our lack of options for change meant that once he went off, Milne - categorically not a centre forward - was unable to hold up play to any degree which resulted in EF being able to turnover play relatively quickly. It's an issue that should solve itself with time, as Duggan and Vaughan get fit, and we can have both a starter and replacement who can play as a centre forward even before we have to consider Buchanan. That should result in us being able to maintain pressure on the opposition, and to  create actual chances.

The second issue, particularly in the second half, was in the midfield. I don't share other posters glowing reviews of Wedderburn on Saturday.  While agreeing with them that his willingness to drive with the ball, to take it on the turn and play forward is a really positive attribute, he was also blowing out his arse by the hour mark, and his sloppy header before Agnew's second didn't help. Obviously that knock on Tuesday night was showing up because near the end EF players were ghosting past him like he wasn't there. On the other hand Gillespie's first time passing and wee touches really add a dimension to our play, but it can border on wreckless at times and occasionally taking a touch and slowing down play would've led to us having more control of the play. A secondary issue would be that EF, knowing all about Flanagan, doubled up on him time and again.

That all feels like it could be solved if budget were available to bring in a right sided wide player. Had we such a player available on Saturday, we could've replaced Wedderburn (or Gillepsie, depending on your taste) with Matthews, so that the middle of the park had a fresher pair of legs with a better engine, while at the same time adding an attacking outlet down that side that would have posed extra problems to EF, and allowed us to impose ourselves on the game. Perhaps Milne would be that guy were he not needed to replace the ailing Buchanan, who Smith obviously believes he needs to rest after a period, else he doesn't have two fit senior strikers for the week after. You could argue that Smith should've let Berry or Stevenson on (if you agree with the above analysis) but he obviously doesn't trust them to carry a game.

So yeah, I wanted Smith gone in the Summer and I'm still not sure he is the man for the job - yet I have to admit some of the football they've tried to play in the last couple of home games has taken me by surprise with how easy on the eye it is. We are clearly below strength however, both in terms of sidelined players and walking wounded. I think one more body - an attacking player out wide - would allow him enough flexibility now to get a better performance than we saw in the second half on Saturday, and that with Duggan and Vaughan back, we'd look a lot more dangerous. As it is, Airdrie looks a tough one, unless he decides to do away with two up top - because right now he doesn't have the resources to sustain that formation over 90 minutes.

Some really good stuff in your post!

Would Vaughan perhaps play wide right when fit? He was at his most dangerous when playing wide last season, when he scored the bulk of his goals.