"The ICT Thread - From the Premiership to the Seaside"

[Skyline Drifter]

8 hours ago, mcjameos said:

I seem to remember some on here claiming when Ferguson was appointed that he was being paid by someone (possibly a director) other than the club. Not sure how these things work but, if true, would his contract not be paid out in full by that individual.

edit: ..... but then suppose that doesn't fit with him working for free, so guess the claim (on here) was likely untrue negating my question.

Legally his contract would have been with the club. It has to be for Licensing purposes. It may or may not have been sponsored / covered by 3rd party donation but the direct liability would be with the club.

2 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

I’m not even convinced Ferguson has been working for free.   He wouldn’t have been out the door in hours were this true.   

He would have been because the administrator has to work based on the legal liability position not whether he was waiving it for now. The administrator cant be basing future business decisions on the whims of a volunteer with a valid contract.

 

Edited 5 hours ago by Skyline Drifter

[ICTChris]

I wonder which players will be getting released today.

Administrators giving a press conference apparently.

[bdu98196]

Shocked by how many Caley fans on CTO now have sympathy for Dunc and the board over this still and that some are even citing now he's gone we should be looking at x,y or z as a new manager along with options for new players when the administrators make their cuts today. Either many are just wishful thinking (denial) into the future or perhaps a sign that the majority of fans (probably across football) really have very little understanding of most things.

If there is one positive about this situation is that I hope it opens the eyes of a lot more fans and clubs as to how they run their business - its been some years since the last Scottish club went into admin and I think too often those that did it was obvious why the scenarios arose. Yes, we have been run badly but from the outside I'm not sure many would have said it was obvious we were a 'punching' club with 'disaster impending' over the last 10 years - much of how we operate financially is aligned to the majority of clubs (loans, written off debts & benefactors)

[oneteaminglasgow]

8 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I wonder which players will be getting released today.

Administrators giving a press conference apparently.

If there’s any journalists reading this, could you ask the administrators if they know anything further about Shadwell Dog’s misdeeds.

Thanks. 

[Hampden Diehard]

10 hours ago, Central Belt Caley said:

First it was Arbroath then it was Queen of the South, then Falkirk and now it’s Cowdenbeath fans. Everyone wants a bit of the Caley baby! 

Any more decent players QP can have?

[Skyline Drifter]

11 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

No don’t understand the logic - not having a pop at ICT but pointing out that if SPFL has a situation where an entry level club wins HL or LL the ICT situation as regards licence may become moot and a promotion applicant might expect that a derogation would be more readily available when the SPFL already has entry level clubs in it.  Last season all 42 were bronze or better

 

11 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Derogations are always available. All 42 were not bronze or better at 31 March 2024

 

10 hours ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Yes but that was the application date and then other deadlines come into play.  You seem to think that derogations are just easily plucked off the shelf - it’s not as simple as that 

 

10 hours ago, The Moonster said:

How many clubs have had derogations denied?

 

10 hours ago, Ginaro said:

That wasn't the deadline for SPFL clubs to have a Bronze licence, it was 1 July 2024 (which they all met).

 

9 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

Clubs could apply for a derogation up to 1 July. 

In any case the board have latitude to do what they want. They might have flexed some muscle over Edinburgh because nothing of value would be lost.

The idea they would expel ICT is for the birds. 

 

1 hour ago, Cowden Cowboy said:

Well I don’t know as there has only been one season where spfl derogations or periods of grace have applied.  Thus not many granted or denied in all likelihood.  

 

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Well that's not true at all. At Dumbarton for example our floodlights were not up to standard and we were granted a period of grace to fix it as our owners were exploring moving stadiums. When our move collapsed we had to upgrade them. There's been issues for years that clubs need periods of grace for and I can't ever remember a club being denied it. If you have good reason for one you'll get one.

I think there's some confusion across this debate about what the debate actually is!

Derogations have been around for years in relation to Club Licensing (at least a decade) and I expect pretty much every club will have made use of one at some point or another. We certainly have.

However, the SPFL requirement for member clubs to have a Bronze licence has only been around for one year. As @invergowrie arab says there may well be a number of existing members who don't comply with all the requirements for a Bronze licence but they've applied for and been granted derogations by the SFA and issued with a Bronze licence anyway. That's up to the SFA and the SPFL won't concern itself with them. If a Bronze licence is held then the club is compliant.

Separate to that we have the scenario where a club does not have a Bronze licence and asks the SPFL for a period of grace to get one. We know there were issues in the summer around both Kelty and Edinburgh City in terms of getting a Bronze licence and both were late in doing so. In addition Buckie were denied the opportunity to play for promotion due to not having one by the required deadline (and not asking for an extension - we don't know whether one would have been granted or not).

It seems to me highly unlikely the SPFL will throw a member out for not having a Bronze licence without providing an avenue for that to be addressed, particularly if the only reason they don't have one is an Insolvency event from which there is a clear route out. In the first place it will be up to the SFA whether they'd allow a Derogation to ICT and award a Bronze licence anyway (although I'd need to check, that might not be something that there's any flexibility on). If one isn't given then it becomes a question for the SPFL to debate.  We'll not know what the attitude to that is until the question arises.

[Stephen Malkmus]

[Hampden Diehard]

10 hours ago, ExiledLichtie said:

Your club is currently the biggest binfire in Scottish football.  I still don't understand why your fans are so surprised that fans of other clubs take an interest in the topic. 

I think it's more the utter, utter pish the likes of yourself posts that's the problem. Anyone taking delight in the meltdown of any club (other than the OF) and thinking it's a bit of a laugh should go back to their colouring in.

[Fraz]

6 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Shocked by how many Caley fans on CTO now have sympathy for Dunc and the board over this still and that some are even citing now he's gone we should be looking at x,y or z as a new manager along with options for new players when the administrators make their cuts today. Either many are just wishful thinking (denial) into the future or perhaps a sign that the majority of fans (probably across football) really have very little understanding of most things.

If there is one positive about this situation is that I hope it opens the eyes of a lot more fans and clubs as to how they run their business - its been some years since the last Scottish club went into admin and I think too often those that did it was obvious why the scenarios arose. Yes, we have been run badly but from the outside I'm not sure many would have said it was obvious we were a 'punching' club with 'disaster impending' over the last 10 years - much of how we operate financially is aligned to the majority of clubs (loans, written off debts & benefactors)

I think Ferguson has played a blinder. The sympathy he's garnered by deferring a couple of weeks wages and some comments about player's petrol and he's a saint. Just have a look at Facebook comments on STV, BBC etc about how great he is and how he's been treated terribly. 

[RiG]

Some incredible sane washing of Ferguson on social media after his sacking. 

[Central Belt Caley]

8 minutes ago, Hampden Diehard said:

Any more decent players QP can have?

You can have Luis Longstaff back? I’ll drop him off myself 

[Cowden Cowboy]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

Well that's not true at all. At Dumbarton for example our floodlights were not up to standard and we were granted a period of grace to fix it as our owners were exploring moving stadiums. When our move collapsed we had to upgrade them. There's been issues for years that clubs need periods of grace for and I can't ever remember a club being denied it. If you have good reason for one you'll get one.

Those were sfa derogations not spfl ones.  Lots of clubs have had derogations and even grace periods refused - some then had their licence downgraded by SFA.  I would assume for example that Bonnyrigg had a derogation or period of grace to meet bronze.  Now they are back at entry so no longer have a derogation or period of grace for whatever ground issue is the problem.  Clubs don’t necessarily publicise derogations and periods of grace matters

[PB1994]

9 minutes ago, Fraz said:

I think Ferguson has played a blinder. The sympathy he's garnered by deferring a couple of weeks wages and some comments about player's petrol and he's a saint. Just have a look at Facebook comments on STV, BBC etc about how great he is and how he's been treated terribly. 

 

7 minutes ago, RiG said:

Some incredible sane washing of Ferguson on social media after his sacking. 

It’s wild some of the revisionism happening in social media. He must have signed over 20 players since joining the club about a year ago. It was his shite recruitment and tactics that got us relegated last year. Nothing to do with finances. This season as well, I actually think our signings in the summer are pretty good but again his tactics have been dreadful. 2 wins in 9 games is shambolic.

[bdu98196]

12 minutes ago, Fraz said:

I think Ferguson has played a blinder. The sympathy he's garnered by deferring a couple of weeks wages and some comments about player's petrol and he's a saint. Just have a look at Facebook comments on STV, BBC etc about how great he is and how he's been treated terribly. 

yeah seen a lot of comments from Everton & The Rangers 2012 fans - many saying how they wish he'd go to their club (so do I TBH)and with the latter still crying about the way we voted (you'd think they would be more supportive given their history plus how during 'Armageddon' we stopped another Celtic treble - something they seem unable to do now they are 'back')

Its amazing the benefit of being in a League with zero TV exposure that you can write your own narrative and nobody can see or question the results. We had to watch his turgid shite and see the events in front of us which is why I'm more surprised by our own fans fan-boying over his tensure.

Edited 4 hours ago by bdu98196

[Stellaboz]

Would love to see him in charge at Sevco. 

[Passionate]

What has Savage actually done apart from ride into town on the back of a white charger,    am I right in saying that , when he came in, he agreed with  directors to waive monies owed to aid the club,    will these be the same directors who have probably sent details of monies owed to the administrator recorded delivery,...to me their is a lot of smoke and mirrors.

 

Is Alan Savage the saviour or does he just want the land like the rest...

 

Flynn Duffy any good...

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

A few jokey appearances on Talksport with Brazil and McCoist laughing about about daft Teuchters up in the frozen north ruining things for him and he'll soon find some desperate English League Two chairman willing to take a punt on him again.

He'll then ride out the Everton/Rangers sportsman dinner circuit for the rest of his days.

Edited 4 hours ago by Sherrif John Bunnell

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Passionate said:

What has Savage actually done apart from ride into town on the back of a white charger,    am I right in saying that , when he came in, he agreed with  directors to waive monies owed to aid the club,    will these be the same directors who have probably sent details of monies owed to the administrator recorded delivery,...to me their is a lot of smoke and mirrors.

 

Is Alan Savage the saviour or does he just want the land like the rest...

 

Flynn Duffy any good...

He's put £350,000 into the club, guaranteed sufficient funding to keep the club operating through administration, and done all he can to persuade the main ex-director creditors to write off their loans or turn them into equity. Other than that, who knows?

[Archie McSquackle]

15 minutes ago, PB1994 said:

 

It’s wild some of the revisionism happening in social media. He must have signed over 20 players since joining the club about a year ago. It was his shite recruitment and tactics that got us relegated last year. Nothing to do with finances. This season as well, I actually think our signings in the summer are pretty good but again his tactics have been dreadful. 2 wins in 9 games is shambolic.

It's possible to think he's conducted himself well as an individual, considering the implications of the situation for the club and employees (including players) and think he's been an abysmal football manager. They're not mutually exclusive.

[PB1994]

2 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

It's possible to think he's conducted himself well as an individual, considering the implications of the situation for the club and employees (including players) and think he's been an abysmal football manager. They're not mutually exclusive.

That is very true but the comments I have read seem to think he has been harshly treated by getting sacked which is nonsense. He should have been sacked within an hour of the Hamilton game finishing. He has done a dreadful job as manager.